UNION OF SOUTH AFRICA.
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
WITH
ANNEXURES
(SELECTED)
OF THE
South African National Convention
HELD AT
Durban, Cape Town and Bloemfontein,
12TH OCTOBER, 1908, TO HTH MAY. 1909.
yvinted and published pursuant to a lUrJolutton of the \jiiu so of Ar/.fm dated the L'Sth Ilorriiiber. 1910.
SITTINGS OF THE CONVENTION.
At Dntr.AN, from 12th October, 1908, to £th November, 1008.
At CAI-I-: TOWN, from 23rd November, 1908, to 18th December, 1908, and: llth January, 1909, to 3rd February, 1909.
At BLOKMFOVIT.IN, from 3rd May, 1909, to llth May, 1909.
.>
A [£
CONTENTS.
Minutes of Proceedinrjx.
PAGE
Explanatory note by G. K. Hofmeyr, Clerk of the House of
Assembly ... ... ... ... ... v-x.
Delegates and Officers ... ..-. ... ... xi-xiii.
Delegates appointed in connection with passage of Draft Act
through the Parliament of the United Kingdom ... ... xiv.
List of Annexures to the Minutes of Proceedings ... ... xv-xxii.
Committees appointed ... ... ... ...xxiii-xxv
Minutes of Proceedings ... ... ... ... 1-274.
Appendices.
A. Resolutions adopted by the Inter-Colonial Conference held at
Pretoria on the 5th May, 1(J08, on the subject of Union... 277
B. Confirmatory resolutions adopted by the various Parliaments... 278-27?
C. Appointment of delegates to the Convention ... ... 280-2K1
D. Appointment of representatives for Southern Rhodesia ... 281
E. Draft Act as brought up by the Drafting Committee ... 282-311
F. First Report of the Convention, with Draft Act as agreed to
at Cape Town for submission to the various Parliaments... 312-345
G. Resolutions and amendments to Draft Act ndopted by the-
various Parliaments during the sessions of April, 1909 ... 345-349
H. Second Report of the Convention with amendments to Draft
Act made at Eloemfontein prior to its final adoption ... 349-354
I. Resolutions adopted by the various Parliaments approving of the Draft Act as well as addresses to H.M. the King for the authorization of the proposed Union
J. Appointment of delegates to London in connection with the passage of the Draft Act through the Parliament of the United Kingdom
K. Schedule of amendments to the Draft Act made in England prior to its introduction into the Parliament of the United Kingdom ... ... ... ... ... 3liO-3tU
L. South Africa Act as assented to and promulgated ... 31)4-402
Index. Index to the Minutes of Proceedings . 405-451
EXPLANATORY NOTE.
Preliminary.
The Minutes of the proceedings of the South African Na- tional Convention are printed in accordance with a resolution adopted by the House of Assembly on the 28th November, 1910.
The undersigned, requested thereto by the Government, un- dertook to superintend the publication of the Minutes, a task which involved, in addition to seeing the actual manuscript through the Press (1) the arrangement of the Minutes in an intelligible and convenient form, and with necessary notes and references (2) a careful scrutiny of the annexures in order to ascertain which should be published (3) the collection of data connected with the Convention, but not included in the- Minutes (4) an extensive revision and adaptation of the Dutch version and (5) the compilation of an index.
It may be useful to trace in a few words the steps which led up to the Union of South Africa, to place on record the procedure adopted by the Convention and to explain the- method of arranging the contents of this volume.
Steps towards Union.
Though the South Africa Act is the fruit of the delibera- tions of the South African National Convention, the seed which gave it birth was sown on. the 5th May, 1908, when the Inter-Colonial Conference by the adoption of a series of resolutions took the first practical step towards setting in mo- tion the necessary machinery for the accomplishment of the union of the South African Colonies.
These resolutions which are printed at the end of this volume [Appendix A], not only reaffirmed previous declara- tions in favour of union, but actually paved the way for the meeting of a National Convention by defining its constitution and fixing the representation of each Colony as well as the method of voting. It was further agreed that Ehodesia "shall be entitled to admission at such time and on such conditions as may hereafter be agreed upon."
The resolutions were subsequently confirmed by the Parlia- ments of the four South African Colonies in the terms set out in Appendix B and delegates to the Convention were appointed as indicated in Appendix C.
The Government of Southern Rhodesia was subsequently in- vited (through the Prime Minister of the Colony of the Cape of Good Hope, who acted as the channel of communication in the matter), to send representatives to the Convention; these representatives were given the right to speak, but not to vote. Three representatives were accordingly appointd by His Honour the Administrator, with the advice of his Execu-
vi SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
tive Council, on the 2nd October, 1908 [Appendix D] and at- tended the sittings of the Convention.
The first session of the Convention was held at Durban, the second at Cape Town and the third or final session at Bloem- fontein. At the conclusion of the second session, on the 3rd February, 1909, the Convention submitted its first report, with t\ Draft Act attached [Appendix F]. This report was consi- dered by the four South African Parliaments in sessions .specially summoned for that purpose in April, 1909, and reso- lutions "and amendments were adopted by them as set forth in Appendix G.
In the Colony of Xatal, in addition to the resolutions and amendments referred to, the question whether that Colony should enter into union in terms of the Draft Act (subject to amendment at the forthcoming session at Bloemfontein) was referred for decision to the electors, and a Referendum Act was passed in the same session providing for the ballot, the result of which is given below.
In pursuance of the recommendation contained in the above report, it was decided at the conclusion of the April Parliamentary sessions to convene a sitting of the Con- vention at Bloemfontein to consider the resolutions and pro- posed amendments referred to [Appendix G]. The Conven- tion accordingly met there on the 3rd May, 1909, and on the llth of that month submitted its second and final report [Appendix H] with the Draft Act as finally approved.
The Parliaments of the Cape of Good Hope, the Transvaal and the Orange River Colony met on the 1st June, 1909, and adopted resolutions and addresses respectively approving of the Draft Act, and requesting His Majesty the King to cause the necessary steps to be taken for the authorisation of the proposed union [Appendix I]. Delegates were at the same time appointed by these Parliaments to proceed to London in connection with the passage of the Draft Act through the Parliament of the United Kingdom. [Appendix J].
Immediately after the conclusion of the Bloemfontein ses- .-ion of the Convention, a proclamation, dated the 14th May, 1909, was issued by the Governor of Xatal, fixing the 10th Juno as the date for the taking of the referendum. The bal- lot resulted in a vote of 11,121 in favour of, and 3,701 against, Union — a majority of 7,420. The Natal Parliament met on the 10th June and adopted resolutions [Appendix I] similar to those agreed to by the other South African Par- liaments, but with the modifications rendered necessary by flic passing of the Referendum Act and the decision of tho old-tors thereunder.
The delegates proceeded to London and there, in consulta- tion with th<> Secretary of State for the Colonies, agreed to certain further amendments in the Draft Act prior to its intro- duction into the Parliament of the United Kingdom; these amendments are set out in Appendix K. The Draft Act, so amended, was then introduced into the
EXPLANATORY NOTE. vii
House of Lords, passed through both that House and the House of Commons without further amendment .and received the assent of His late Majesty King Ed- ward VII. on the 20th September, 1909. The Act of Union as assented to is printed as Appendix L. A proclamation, dated the 2nd December, 1909, was subsequently issued by the late King declaring the 31st May, 1910, as the date • of the establishment of the Union.
It may be added that in terms of the powers conferred upon them on their appointment the delegates consulted with the Secretary of State for the Colonies as to the Royal Instruc- tions to be issued to the Governor-General, and these were promulgated in the Union Gazette of the 31st May, 19.10. The delegates further, in accordance with their instructions, and in consultation with the chairman and officers of the Pro- portional Representation Society in England, drafted for the guidance of the South African Governments rules and regu- lations providing for the first election of Senators according to the principle of proportional representation. These rules and regulations after amendment were published in the Gazettes of the various Colonies prior to the date fixed for the election.
Procedure by Convention and arrangement of tins volume.
The procedure followed by the Convention was first to adopt a series of resolutions on the subjects which were sub- sequently to be incorporated in a Draft Act. This occupied their attention until the 18th December, 1908. On the same day a Committee was appointed [page 143] for the purpose of preparing a Draft Act embodying these resolu- tions the Committee being also instructed to frame amend- ments in the wording and where necessary to suggest amend- ments of the substance of the resolutions. As all the resolu- tions referred to the Drafting Committee are clearly set out in the Minutes at the stage at which they were adopted from time to time, no good purpose would be served by publishing them separately in the form of an Appendix to this volume.
When the Draft Act was brought up by the President as Chairman of the Drafting Committee on the 12th January, 1909, it was not complete as no resolutions dealing with fin- ance and railways had at that stage been adopted by the Con- vention. Resolutions dealing with these matters were, how- ever, subsequently submitted by the Finance Committee, and will be found on pages 155-159 of the Minutes. These resolutions, after amendment by the Convention, were adopted and referred to the Drafting Committee [page 190], and the clauses, framed by the Committee thereon, were subsequently brought up and incorporated in the Draft Act, in which they are indicated as Finance Clauses.
The Draft Act as brought up contained a number of depar- tures from and additions to the resolutions. In the case of
viii SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
the Drafting Committee (as in that of every other Committee- appointed by flie Convention) no record was kept of its pro- ceedings, and it is therefore impossible to establish in what manner the various alterations and additions were made or by whom they were proposed. On the draft prepared by the Committee departures from the resolutions were shown as fol- lows : words added were underlined, general alterations were indicated by a side line, new matter being described as such. Where omissions were made from the resolutions a caret was placed, but the actual words omitted do not appear. In view of the decision not to publish as an Appendix the resolutions referred to the Drafting Committee, and seeing, moreover, that the actual words omitted from these resolu- tions were not shown in the Draft Act, thus rendering the in- dication of the departures by the Committee from the resolu- tions incomplete, it has been decided to eliminate all indica- tions of such departures. The full text of the Draft Act as- prepared by the Committee and subsequently considered clause by clause by the Convention is, however, printed as Appendix E.
The Convention commenced the consideration of this Draft on the 13th January, 1909, but it was not incorporated in the Minutes, nor were clauses shown in full when under consi- deration, and only in case a clause was amended to any con- siderable extent was it repeated as finally agreed to. This omission has been cured, however, by printing the Draft as Appendix E, the numbers of clauses therein indicated being identical with those referred to in the Minutes.
Advisers, who also acted as draftsmen, attended the Con- vention to assist in the framing of the Draft Act, and on the, 22nd January the Prime Ministers were instructed by resolution to have the Draft Act revised by their respective draftsmen jointly [page 195].
The Drafting Committee brought up a report on the 23rd January [pages 200-200] proposing additional amendments and new clauses which were considered by the Convention ; from time to time furl her amendments were made and certain clauses referred back to the Drafting Committee; and on the 26th January the whole of the Draft Act was referred back to ihc Committee with power to make such alterations in the phraseology as might be necessary to make the meaning clear [page 219]'.
Meanwhile the advisers, having gone through the Draft Act, submitted a joint report to the Prime Ministers, in which they suggested further amendments. This report was laid be- fore the Drafting Committee, and on the 28th January the President, as Chairman, intimated to the Convention that the Committee had agreed to a number of these amendments [page 224]. which wci-e thereupon put and agreed to and the Draft Act amended accordingly. In the original Minutes these amendments are recorded as a schedule at the end of the day's proceedings, but to facilitate reference and preserve
EXPLANATORY NOTE. ix
uniformity they have been incorporated at the stage at which they were considered by the Convention. Although, as stated above, these amendments had already been agreed lo- in anticipation by the Convention, the report thereon was for- mally brought up only on the following day, when the Com- mittee suggested still further amendments which were subse- quently also adopted by the Convention.
At this stage the Draft Act had been printed and copies were laid before the Convention on the 29th January [page 2',?!)] subsequent prints being submitted on the '50th January [page 236], and on the 1st February [page 239]. From the time of the setting up of the Draft Act in print the numbers of clauses in the original draft were no longer quoted in the Minutes, and, consequently, when further amendments were made the numbers of the clauses referred to were those ap- pearing in the particular print under consideration. It would be incurring unnecessary duplication to reproduce in extenso these various prints, but, as the numbers of the clauses there- in differ materially from those in the original draft, the numbers of the corresponding clauses in the original draft have been placed in brackets after the numbers recorded in the Minutes. Where no such numbers appear the clauses concerned are entirely new.
When the Convention reassembled at Bloemfontein a printed paper containing the resolutions adopted and amend- ments suggested by the various Parliaments was laid upon the Table and circulated amongst members [Appendix G]. Xo amendments had been put forward by the Transvaal Parlia- ment, but Gen. Smuts gave notice of some on behalf of the Transvaal delegates, and these have been incorporated in the Minutes [pages 251-258]. All the amendments submitted were considered, and the Draft Act, having been further amended, was printed with the second and final report. The amend- ments adopted at the Bloemfontein session are fully set oiit in this report and as the final draft is, except for these amend- ments, identical with the one originally agreed to at ('ape Town, it has been decided to print the report only. [Ap- pendix H].
The original records of the Convention are bound in manu- script in five volumes as stated on page xxii. These volumes were laid upon the Table of the House of Assembly on the 28th February, 1911, and are in the custody of the Clerk of the House. A complete list of the actual annexures to the Minutes will be found on pages xv to xxii. showing those not printed, those originally incorporated in the Minutes, and those appearing in this volume as appendices.
It is naturally impossible to note here every detail in con- nection with the preparation of this volume, but it may be mentioned that, in addition to those already indicated, the following further alterations have been made:
(a) In the original record, Order Papers appeared at the- end of each day's proceedings, but as the notices and
x Soi TII AFKKA.N NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
orders contained therein are with a few exceptions embodied in the Minutes, these Order Papers have been omitted. In the case of the exceptions, refer- ence was made in the Minutes to pages only of the Order Paper on which motions or amendments appeared, but all such motions and amendments have also been embodied in detail in the Minutes.
(b) No record was made of the fact that various prints of 1 he Draft Act were from time to time laid before the Convention, and the Minutes have been amended in tli is respect.
•((•) On resumptions of debate on motions, consideration of reports and clauses of the Draft Act the numbers of the pages on which the original matter appeared have been inserted.
(d) AVhere reports were brought up the wording has as far as possible been made uniform throughout.
(e) The term "Order of the Day" which was inserted in
some cases but not in others has been omitted throughout the printed record.
(f) Explanatory footnotes have been added wherever con-
venient.
While the business of the Convention was undoubtedly •greatly facilitated owing to the fact that it was conducted in a somewhat informal manner, the preparation of this volume was thereby rendered much more difficult and the compilation of an elaborate index made necessary; but, although the work involved considerable rearrangement and some amplification, no material detail lias been omitted, nor has the text or sense been affected in the slightest degree. Consequently where it was found impossible to verify the facts in order to remove anomalies the original record has been left unaltered.
In conclusion, I desire to place on record my appreciation of the valuable assistance rendered to me in the execution of this work by the following members of my staff, viz. : Mr. S. S. Rumble (Chief Committee Clerk), and Messrs C. G. Murray and -T. II. van Zuylen (Translators).
GYS. R, HOFMEYR,
Clerk of the House of Assembly and one of the Secretaries to the Convention.
House1 of Assembly Chambers, Cape Town,
10th September, 1911.
LIST OF DELEGATES AND OFFICERS.
LIST OF DELEGATES AND OFFICERS.
Delegates. Cape of Good Hope — 12 :
(a) Et. Hon. Sir J. H. I>E VILLIERS, P.C., K.C.M.G.,
Chief Justice (President).
(b) Hon. J. X. MERRIMAN, M.L.A., Prime Minister.
(c) Hon. J. W. SAUER, M.L.A., Commissioner of Public
Works.
(d) Hon. F. S. MALAN, M.L.A., Secretary for Agriculture.
(e) lit. Hon. Dr. L. S. JAMESON, P.C., C.B., M.L.A. (/) Hon. Dr. T. W. SMARTT, M.L.A.
(/) Hon. E. H. WALTON, M.L.A.
(g) Col. W. E. M. STANFORD, C.B., C.M.G., M.L.A.
Mr. J. W. JAGGER, M.L.A.
Mr. H. C. VAN HEERDEN, M.L.A.
Mr. Gr. H. MAASDORP, M.L.A. (h) Dr. J. H. M. BECK, M.L.A.
Natal — 5 :
(i) Et. Hon. F. E. MOOR, P.C., M.L.A., Prime Minister. (j) Col. the Hon. E. M. GREENE, K.C., C.M.G., M.L.A.,
Minister of Railways and Harbours. (T) Mr. T. HYSLOP, J. P.,' M.L.A. (I) Hon. C. J. SMYTIIE, J.P., M.L.A.
* Mr. W. B. MORCOM, K.C., M.L.A.
* Hon. T. WATT, C.M.G., M.L.A.
(r/) Created Baron de Villiers of Wynberg and appointed first Chief Justine of the Union.
(Z») Created a Privy Councillor.
(c1) Minister of Railways and Harbours in the first Union Ministry. (rf) Minister of Education in the first Union Ministry. (>) Created a Baronet.
(/) „ Knight Commanders of the Order of St. Michael and St. George. (</) Appointed a Senator in the first Union Parliament.
(A) Created a Knight Bachelor and elected a Senator in the first Union Parliament.
(i) Created a Knight Commander of the Order of St. Michael and St. George- and appointed a Senator in the first Union Parliament.
(./) Appointed a Commissioner of the Railway and Harbour Board.
(&) Created a Knight Bachelor.
(?) First Adminstrator of the Province of Natal.
* Mr. Morcom resigned before the Convention resumed in Cape Town on t lu- ll th January, 1909, and was replaced by Mr. Watt.
xii SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
Transvaal — 8 :
(•;/?.) Gen. The Kt. Hon. Louis BOTHA, P.O., M.L.A., Primer Minister.
(n) Gen. The Hon. J. C. SMUTS, M.L.A., Colonial" Secretary .
(o) Hon. H. C. HULL, M.L.A., Colonial Treasurer, (p) Sir GEORGE FARRAR, Kt., D.S.O., M.L.A. (q) Sir PERCY FITZPATRICK, Kt., M.L.A.
Mr. H. L. LINDSAY, M.L.A.
Gen. S. W. BURGEB, M.L.A. (/•) Gen. J. H. DE LA REY, M.L.A.
Orange River Colony — 5 :
(s) Hon. A. FISCHER, M.L.A., Prime Minister.
Hon. M. T. STEYN (V ice-President}.
(f) Gen. The Hon. J. B. M. HERTZOG, M.L.A., Attorney- General. Gen. The Hon. C. R. DE WET, M.L.A., Minister of
Agriculture. 0) Hon. A. BROWNE, I.S.O., M.L.C.
Southern Rhodesia* — 3.
(v) His Honour Sir WILLIAM MILTON, K.C.M.G., Adminis--
trator.
O) Hon. C. P. J. COGIILAN, M.L.C. Hon. Sir LEWIS MICIIELL, Kt.
(w) First Prime Minister of the Union.
(//) Minister of the Interior, Mines and Defence in the first Union Ministry.
(<») Minister of Finance in the first Union Ministry.
(/>) Created a Baronet.
(<y) .. a Knight Commander of the Order of St. Michael and St George.
(/•) Elected a Senator in the first Union Parliament.
(•^ Created a Privy Councillor; Minister of Lands in \ st Union
Ministry.
(0 Minister of Justice in the first Union Ministry.
(» Created a Companion of the Order of St. Michael and St. George.
O1) ., Kniprht Commander of the Victorian Order.
O) .. a Knight Bachelor.
* The llhod»sian representatives were given the righ to speak but not
to vote.
LIST OF DELEGATES AND OFFICERS. xiii
Officers. .Secretaries :
Cape of Good Hope: Mr. E. F. Kilpin, C.M.G.,* Clerk of
the House of Assembly (Chief Secretary). Natal: Mr. G. T. Plowman, C.M.G.,t Secretary to the
Prime Minister. Transvaal: Mr. G. II. Hofmeyr,t Clerk of the Legislative
Assembly. Orange River Colony: Mr. A. M. N. de Villiers,t Clerk of
the House of Assembly.
Interpreter :
Dr. W. E. Bok,§ Private Secretary to Gen. the Rt. Hon. Louis Botha, P.C., M.L.A,, Prime Minister of the Transvaal.
Legal Advisers :
Hon. R, H. Brand. II
Mr. N. J. de Wet.
Mr. P. Duncan, C.M.G.
Mr. B. K. Long, M.L.A.
Mr. F. Lucas.
Mr. W. Luckhoff.
Mr. H. S. van Zyl, M.L.A.
Mr. AY. J. van Zyl, M.L.A.
* Created a Knight Commander of the Order of St. Michael and St. George, f Appointed Clerk of the House of Assembly of the Union Parliament.
* ., Secretaries to the Administrators of the Provinces of Natal and the Orange Free State respectively.
§ Appointed Secretary to the Prime Mini>ter of the Union.
lj Created a Companion of the Order of St. Michael and St. George.
xiv SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
List of Delegates* appointed to proceed to London in connection with the passage of the Draft South Africa Act through the Parliament of the United Kingdom.
CAPE OF GOOD HOPE:
Rt. Hon. Sir J. H. de Villiers.
Hon. J, X. Merrinian.
Hon. J. W. Sauer.
Rt. Hon. Dr. L. S. Jameson.
Hon. J. H. Hofmeyr.
NATAL:
Rt. Hon. F. R. Moor.
Col. the Hon. E. M. Greene.
Hon. C. J. Suivthe.
Mr. T. Hyslop.
Hon. T. Watt.
TRANSVAAL:
Gen. The Rt. Hon. Louis Botha. Gen. The Hon. J. C. Smuts. Hon. II. C. Hull. Sir George Farrar. Sir Percy Fitzpatrick.
ORANGE 1UYER COLONY :
Hon. A. Fischer.
Hon. M. T. Stern.
Gen. The Hon. J. 13. M. Hertzog.
Hon. A. Browne.
For alterations in titles, et.'., see pages xi-xii.
LIST OF AXNEXUHKS.
XV
LIST OF ANNEXURES
TO THE
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS.
No. of Annex- tin •.
4 S
IS
2C.
SUBJECT.
Telegram from the Secretary of State for the Colonies with message of congratulation from H.M. the King.
Telegram from the Governor of the Cape of Good Hope with message of congratulation from the Secretary of State for the Colonies.
Telegram from the Governor of the Cape of Good Hope with personal message of congratulation.
Credentials of delegates for the Cape of Good Hope, Natal, Transvaal and Orange River Colony, and of representatives for Rhodesia.
Telegrams of congratulation from Hon. W. P. Schreiiier, Xewlands ; Postma, Burghersdorp ; Afrikander Bond. Steynsburg : Adam Smith. Kokstad ; Eendracht, Oudtshoorn ; Esselen, Pre- toria ; Jan Luttig, jr., Prince Albert ; C. J. Krige and J)r. Viljoen, Caledon ; and Miss Hobhouse, Pretoria.
Letter from II. E. the Earl of Sel borne forwarding message of congratulation from His Majesty's Government.
Telegrams of congratulation from De Wet, Aliwal North ; Mayor and inhabitants of Carnarvon : Lombard. M.L.C.. Riebeek East : Griqualaud Vi'est Farmers' Association, Belmont ; Moderator. Dutch Reformed Church. Natal : and Sons of Ingland Society. King William's Town.
Correspondence on presentation of petition regarding women's franchise.
Letter from J. M. Orpen. C.M.G.. on representation for other than white citizens.
Letter of congratulation from the Griqualand West Farmers' Association. Modder River.
Telegrams of congratulation from Stellenbnseh
Municipal Council : Dutch Reformed Church.
George and Cape 1o\vn Ring?.; President. Baptist Union. Alice.
Letter from H.E. the Earl of Selborne acknowledg- ing receipt of Minr.tes of Proceedings.
Similar letter from 11. E. Sir Matthew Nathan
Provisional draft of pn 'posed '' British South Africa Act." prepared in Natal.
Remarks.
SeelMinutes. pp. 2-3.
See Minutes, p. :i.
See Minutes, p. H.
See Minutes, pp. 3-5.
Not printed.
do.
xvi SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
No. of
Annex-
ure.
33 34 35 36
37
38-40 41
42 43 44 45
4G
17
18 49
SUBJECT.
Petition from ;">(> women of South Africa in opposi- tion to women's franchise.
Division List No. 1 ...
Copy of reply to telegrams, and letters of congratula- tion.
Letter from S. Estcourt offering land at Rosmead Junction as site for capital.
Telegram of congratulation. Head Committee, S.A. Taalbond.
Division Lists Xos. 2. 3 and 4
Petition from Head Committee, Afrikaansche Christelijke Vrcuwen Vereeniging, on equal language rights.
Petition from Head Committee. Oranje Vrouwen Vereeniging, on equal language rights.
Petition from Natal Womens' Enfranchisement Com- mittee on women's suffrage.
Similar petition from 058 men and women of the Cape Colony.
Letter and petition from Cape coloured people resident on the Witwatersrand, on claim to full political rights.
Petition from 7.2oO women of South Africa, in oppo- sition to women's franchise.
Letter from President. Naturalization Reform Associa- tion, on naturalization reform.
Petition from 1.47!) men and women of the Cape Colony. 011 women's suffrage.
Letter from Mayor of Kroonstad on adjournment of Convention to that place.
Telegram of congratulation from Head Committee, South African Women's Federation.
52 Division Lists Xos. 5 am
Telegram of congratulation from Klipspmit branch
or tin- Afrikander Homl.
Remarks.
Not printed.
See Minutes, p. 16.
Not printed, do. do.
See Minutes, pp. 19 & 21.
Not printed.
do. do do. do.
do. do. do. do. do.
See Minutes, p. 32.
Not printed.
See Minutes,
PP. 3i;-3i>.
Not printed.
LIST OF ANNEXURES. xvii
No. of Annex- SUBJECT. Remarks.
nrc.
I
•Ml Similar petition from African Political Organization Xot printed. lit' the Transvaal.
CiI l!2 Division Lists Xos. 12 and II? ... ... ... ... See Minutes,
pp. 45-lfi.
r,:; Telegram from Mayor of Harriamith on adjournment i Not printed. of Convention to that place.
I
r>4 Petition from African Political Organization of the do.
< (range River Colony, on franchise rights.
i;.") OS Division Lists Xos. 14-17 ..
See Minutes, pp. 50-56.
»')'.» Letter from Mayor of Queonstown on situation of i Xot printed. 1'nion Capital at that place.
7' i Telegram of congratulation from the Synod of the do.
Dutch Reformed Mission Church. Paarl.
71 Letter from C. Daniel on rights of coloured people ... : do.
72 7:> Division Lists Xos. 18 and !1» ... ... ... ... , See Minutes,
i pp. 05 & 72.
71 75 Letters from ILE. the Earl of Selborne on congratu- Xot printed, lations to FLM. the King on birthday.
7(1 Telegram of congratulation from Naturalization do.
Uefonn Association. Cape Town.
11 Letter from \Yynberg Coloured Men's Political do.
Organization on rights of coloured people.
7* Petition from l.'J'.M natives of the Transvaal on do.
representation in I'nion Parliament.
7'.» si i Division Liets Xos. 2<i and 21 ... ... ... ... See Minutes,
pp. 75-715.
si Telegram of congratulation from Chairman of Xot printed.
.Uolteno branch of the Afrikander l»ond.
S2 SM Division Lists Xos. 22 and 2" ... ... ... ... See Minutes.
pp. 7it-sn.
si lleport of Committee on (Qualifications of Members. See Minutes, etc. pp. <1-S2.
See ITinutes. p. S3.
See Minutes, pp. S4-S5.
xriii SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
No. of Annex- ure.
91a
92 93 94
97
98
99
100
101
102 103
104 105 1 Ofi
107 108
SUBJECT.
Remarks.
Report of Committee on Statistics (with printed volume of statistics).
Division Lists Xos. 28 and 29
Petition fr.irn 181 men and women of the Cape Colony, in favour of women's franchise.
Division Lists Xos 29a and 30 .
Letter from the Rev. T. H. Jones, forwarding resolu- tion of Diamond Fields Ministers' Association on uniform code of marriage laws.
Report of Committee on Administration of Justice ... Division List Xo. 31
Letter from Town Clerk, Mafeking, on situation of Union Capital t.t that place.
Division List Xo. 32
I Report of Committee on Provincial Constitutions ...
I
| Letter from His Honour Sir William Milton, acknow- ledging receipt of Minutes of Proceedings.
First Report of Committee on Civil Service and Miscellaneous Matters.
Telegram of congratulation from (-Jrand Secretaiy. Masonic Hall. Johannesburg.
Report of Committre on Native Affairs
I
Interim Report of Committee1 on Union Capital i First R-port of Committee on Financ',..
Secmd Report of Committee on Civil Service and Miscellaneous Mat .e> s.
Letter of congratulation fioiu Cape Town and District Evangelical Cnurch Council.
Divisi-m Lists Xos. :!2a. 32b and 32<-
Credential of the Hon. T. Watt. C. \I.< ;., M.L.A.. as a delegate for Natal, i-ii-e W. I'.. Moieom. K C.. resigned.
Report only printed, see Minutes, p. 93.
See Minutes, p. 97.
Xot printed.
See Minutf s,
pp. ion ,v no.
Xot printed.
See Minutes, pp. 117-121.
See Minutes, p. 121.
Xot printed.
See Minutes, p. 130.
See Minutes, pp. 99-104.
Xot printed.
See Minutes, pp. 12U-12S.
Xot printed.
See Minutes, pp. 131-138.
See Minutes, pp. 138-139.
See Minutes, pp. 1 39- 1 12.
Set' Minutes.
Xot printed.
See Minutes, pp. 1 I. '.-I is.
See Minutes, p. 1 ~>o.
LIST OF ANNEXURKS.
xix
No. of
Annex-
ure.
SUBJECT.
Remarks.
111 Petition from 1,770 natives of the Transvaal, on
representation in Union Parliament.
112 Draft South Africa Act. brought up by the Drafting
Committee.
113-I13a Division Lists Nos. 33 and 34
1 11 Revised First Report of Committee on Finance
I
1 1 o-l 1 0 Division Lists Nos. 35 and 36
1 1 7 Letter from Parijs Municipality, on situation of Union
Capital at that place.
118 Similar letter from Potchefstroom Municipality
119 Division List No. 37
120 Telegram from Kroonstad Municipality, offering free
land at that place for Union Capital.
121 : Division List No. 38
122 Report of Committee on Union Capital 123-124 : Division Lists Nos. 3'.l and 40
125 Invitation to members to attend Stellenbosch Agri- cultural Show.
126-128 Division Lists Nos. 41-43
129 Second Report of Committee on Finance 130 --136 Division Lists Nos. 44-19...
Not printed.
See Appendix E.
See Minutes, pp. 153-154.
See Minutes. pp. 155-159.
Sec Minutes, pp. 160-161.
Not printed.
do.
See Minutes. p. K18.
Not printed
See Minutes, p. 171.
See Minut' s. pp. 172-173.
See Minutes, pp. 174-17fi.
Not printed.
137 First Report of Drafting Committee on amendments
to Draft Act.
138 Letter from Potehefstroom Municipality cm low
death rate.
See Minutes, pp. ISO- 183.
i See Minutes. pp. 18ti-187.
See Minutes, pp. 1SS-I97.
See Min u t< >. pp. 2UO-20I'..
Not printed.
139-15U Division Lists Nos. :>n-61
151 Second Report of Drafting Committee on amendment^
to Draft Act.
152 Third Report of Committee on Finance
See Minutes, pp. 207-221.
See Minutes, pp. 229-232.
See Minute?-, p. 232.
XX
SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
No. of
Annex-
ure.
SUBJECT.
Remark*.
|
162a |
Division List No (ila |
See Minutes, |
|
p. 234. |
||
|
i 53 |
Report of Committee on procedure after publication of Draft South Africa Act. |
See Minutes, p. 236. |
|
151 |
Letter from Chairman of Kiruberley and Bloemfontein |
Not printed. |
District Synod of Wesleyan Metliodist Church (native section), on safeguarding of interests of natives.
155 Report of Committee on Precis of Draft South Africa See Minutes, Act. pp. 239-243.
l.")(i Dutch Draft South Africa Act, brought up by Com- Not printed in mittee appointed thereon. this volume.
157-158 Drafts and Prints of South Africa Act, shewing amendments made by the Convention at various stages, viz. : —
First Draft, as brought up by Drafting Com- | See Appendix niittee. E.
Second Draft, as amended by Convention ... Not printed. First Print, do.
Second Print. ,, „ ... j do.
Third Print, as finally agreed to ... ... ... \ do.
Final Print, with First Report ... ... ... do.
15!» ; First Report and Draft South Africa Act (in Dutch). Not printed in as signed by delegates. this volume.
IdO First Report and Draft South Africa Act (in English). ! See Appendix as signed by delegates. F.
If.l ML' Corrected Prints (in Dutch) of Draft South Africa Not printed. Act,
Ki3 Letter from II. E. the Earl of Sd borne on amend- do.
rnents of section in regard to Kills reserved for His Majesty's pleasure.
161 | Letter from the Judge President, Eastern Districts do.
Court, forwarding memorandum of Judges of that Court on proposed amendments to Draff Act.
Hi 5 Letter from the Prime Minister of the () range River do.
Colony. forwarding resolution ol House of Assembly of that Colony, no! eoneiiiTcd iu by Legislative Council, on definition of "spursity and density of population." and •' sparsely populated areas."
Letter from II. E. the Karl of Selborne on reception do.
by British Government of delegates to London in connection with passage of Draft Aet through the Parliament of the United Kingdom.
LlST OF A.VNKXl'UKS. XX 1
No. of i Annex-! SUBJECT. Remark-
li',7 Letter from Chdirman of meeting of coloured resi- Not printed.
<;enl-< of Wellington. Cape Colony, on preservation of franchise rights.
his Petition from Wynberg Coloured .Men's Political do.
Organization, on preservation of franchise rights.
Hi1,) Resolutions of the vaiious I';u-l lament •» OQ consid^ra- See Appendix tio-i if Draft Act, together \vitli amendments (i.
proponed t hereto.
I7n lu"-"!ul ion of public me.cting held at Kloemfontein. Not j)rinted. nil e-talilislinu'iit of I'nion railway workshops at
;hat place.
171 Division List No. 1 (Bloeuafonteiu) ... .. ... See Minutes.
p. 2r,:,.
1 7L' Petition from Wine Farmers of the Cape Colony, on Not printed,
relief to their industry.
173 Letter from the Right Rev. the Archbishop of Cape do.
Town and Clergy of other denominations, on position and privileges of coloured and native races.
171 Letter from (Jtneral Secretary. African Political do.
Organization, forwarding resolutions on protection of rights of coloured people.
175 Letter from Resident Magistrate, Thaba- 'Nchn, for- do.
warding petition from natives of that district on protection of rights of coloured people.
17i'> Fir.>t Report (Bloemfontein) of Committee on Finance See .'Minutes,
pp. 2^8-2o'J.
177 ' Revolt of Committee on Dictions .'Wand in of Draft See Minutes, South Africa Act, p. 2<io.
See Minutes.
P. 2<;i.
Sec Minutu-. pp. L'«.-).2i!7.
l.s| Sc'.'nnd Report (lilormfontciu) oi Connnittee on See Minutes. Finance. p. 1'iis.
xxii SOUTH AFJUTAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
No. of
Annex- SUBJECT. Remarks.
tire.
18»> Third Report (Bloemfontein) of Committee on See Minutes, Firance. p. 27H.
187 Second Report and amended Draft South Africa Ac1; Not printed in
(in Dutch), as finally adopted and signed by this volume, delegates.
188 Second Report and amended Draft South A frici Act Report only
(in English), as finally adopted and signed by printed, see
delegates. Appendix H.
CONVENTION RECORDS.
NOTE.— The original records of the Convention are bound in manuscript in five volumes, as follows : —
Vol. I. — Minutes of Proceedings.
Vol. II., III. and IV. — The annexures enumerated above.
Vol. V. — General correspondence, etc.
G.R.H.
COMMITTEES APPOINTED. xxiii
COMMITTEES APPOINTED.
STATISTICS : Messrs. Browne (Chairman), Walton, Hull,
Ilyslop, and Sir William Mi lion. Appointed \(\\\\ and 19th October, 1908 (pages 14 and
20). AV/W/-W .",()th November, 1908 (page 9:5).
FRANCHISE: Messrs. Fisrher (Cha inn an), Sauer, Walton, Sir- Percy Fit/patrick, Gen. Smuts, Gen. Hert/og, Mr. Sinythe, Col. Greene, and Mr. Coghlan.
Appointed- -'22nd October, 1908 (pages 2U-27). /ff/ioi-tcd First, 2nd November, 1908 (pages W>-n"t ) ; Second, 4th November, 1908 (page 64).
CONSTITUTION OF SKXATK : The President (Chairman), Mr.
Merrinian, Dr. Jameson, Messrs. Moor, Hyslop, Gen.
Botha, Sir Percy Fitzpatrick, Messrs. Fischer and
Browne.
Appointed — 26th October, 1908 (page •'}")). Re. ported— 27th October, 1908 (page :$(>).'
CONSTITUTION OF HOUSE or ASSEMBLY: The President (Cliair- •man), Mr. Merriman, Dr. Jameson, Messrs. Moor, Hyslop, Col. Greene, Gen. Botha, Sir George Farrar, Gen. Smuts, Mr. Fischer, Gen. Hertzog, and Mr. Browne.
Appointed 28th October, 1908 (page -tf ). Reported- First, 29th October, 1908 (pages 44-4.')); Second, -'!rd November, 1908 (pages -">7-58).
ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE: The President (Chairman}. Messrs. Merriman, Sauer, Col. Greene, Mr. Morcom, Gen. Smuts, Messrs. Lindsay, Fischer, Gen. Hert/og and Mr. Coghlan.
Appointed — 5th November, 1908 (page 70).
Reported— 8ih December, 1908 (pages 117-121;.
QUALIFICATIONS OF MEMBERS: Messrs. Sauer (Chairman],
Morcom, Hull, and Gen. Hert/og. A/>pointed -2;>rd November, 1908 (page 7li). l\('l>ortcd - 2oth November, 1908 (pages Si -82).
Oi;i>Ei{ LIST AND NOTICE PAPER : The President, .Messrs Merri- nian, Moor, Gen. Botha, and Mr. Fischer. A/> /tainted 2;!rd November. 1908 (page 7;>).
PHOVINCI AI. Co.NS'i'iTUTio.NS : The Pre>id(Mit (Cliainnan), Mi-.
Merriman, Dr. Jameson, Col. Greene, Mr. Hv^lop,
(icn. Smut>, Sir George Farrar, Mr. l-'i^cher. Gen.
Ilertxog (with Mr. Steyn as alternate), and Mr.
( 'oghlan.
A/i/jointcd 27th November, 1908 (]>agrs S!>-!»0). Jfc/iorhd 2nd nerember. 1908 (pages IMl-104).
xxiv SOUTH AVUICAX \\TIOXAT. COXVKXTTOX, 1908 — '09.
FIXA.NCK : Messrs. Merrimaii* [afterwards replaced by Mr. S;iuer (Chairman] |, Jagger, Hyslop, Col. Greene (afterwards temporarily replaced by Mr. Smythe), Mr. Hull, Sir George Farrar (will) Gen. Smuts as alternate), Messrs. Fischer, Browne, and Sir Lewis Michel 1.
- 1 />/>o//if<'(/ 7th Deeember, 190S (page 111).
AV/^rW First, 17th December. 190S ^pages 1:}9-U2), and Mill .Taiiiiary, 1909 (pages ! -V>-1 •"»!) ) : Second, 20th •January, 1909 (pages 180-187); Third, 29tli January, 1909 (page 2-'J2).
~Re<tji pointed at Jfluemfontrui :»rd May, 1909 (page 2-~>l ). AV//0/-W Firsl. (itli .Mav, 1909 (pajjes 'JoS-'J ">!)); Second
lOlh .May, 1909 (page' OT); Third, 11th May. 1909
(page "21'-) ).
XvnvK AKKAIKS: The President (Cliairmfin}, Mi'. M.erriman, Col. Stanford, Mr. Moor, den. IJoll'a, Mr. Fischer, and Sir Lewis Michel].
10th December, 1908 ('page 12~»). Reported- 17th December. 1 90S (pages 1 :'.4-l :>>8).
CIVIL SKEVICK AND MISCKLLAXEOUS MATTKKS : Messrs. Steyn (Chairman], Merrimaii, Dr. Jameson, Messrs. Mor-
com, Smythe, (Jen. Smuts, Sir Percy Fitzpatriek, Gen. Hertxog, and Sir Lewis Michel!.
. 1 i>i>ointid 10th Deeember, 190S page 12->i. Reported First. 1-ltli December, 1908 (pages 120-128) ; Second, 17th December. 1 90S ;p;i<ve 1l2l.
1'xiox CAIMTAI.: The President i ('ho inn iin\, Messrs. Saner (with Mr. Maasdorp a^ alternate), Hysloj) (with Col. Greene as alternate), (Jen. !;otha and (TCD. Hertzog.
A-ppnintcd 10th Deeemher, !9os ,'paf>vs 12">-12(j).
Reported Interim I'eport. 17th Dc'-emb(-r. 1908 (pages 1.'!(S-1::9i: Peport. iSth Tanuary. !90!> .• pages 172-17:'.).
DIMKT Soi'Tii Ai'itK \ ACT: Tlr- l're>ideii! <'Ii<i//-ni/iii}, Mr. Merrimaii (with Mr. Waii'Hi ;c; alternale), Col. (Jreene !afier\vards replaced j,\ \j r. \.\'att ). Cien. Smut- (wilh Mr. linll a- abf-r.iale >, Gen. TIert/og. and Sir F.e\vi-« Mi'-liell \\iih Mr. i'o^lilan as altei-- nate).
Ap/iuinfcf/ ISth December. |!H}> ' ji;!j;e M-5).
Reported !)r;i!i Act sul)'n it t< -|, !'J'.!i January. 1909 (page I-VJ : First, 'j-'ird Jain'ary. !(|i;'.l .;.o-('s 'JOO-'JOd'i : Second. 29th Fanuai v. !9)I9 '.' !(.^-\'2 } : Third.
2nd February. i90!) p^-c 2 !7).
COMMITTEES APPOINTED. xxv
* DCTCII DKAFT Sot TII AFRICA ACT: (Jen. Hertzog (Chair- man), Messrs. Mulan, Moor, and (ion. Smuts.
A/>/ni/nfrt/ l!)th January, 190!) (page ITS). Kt'linrti-il -Draft Act submitted, 2nd February, 11)0!) (page 244).
PKK.CIS OK DRAFT SOTTII AFRICA ACT: Mr. \Valfon (('linir- iinin), Mi1. \Ya1t, (J(>n. Siniils, (icn. llortzog, and Mr. ( 'o<r|ilan.
A/i/xi/nfc// 'J!)tli .January. 1!M)!) fjia^c 2-'!o). /{(-l>t,rtrf/ :!()tli January,' 100!) (pages ^W-'J I-'!).
I'UOCKDI'R!': AK'I'K.R 1 ' I !H. I ( 'ATI < )\ OK DlJAKT SoCTII Al'lMCA A ( T :
The I'rosidcnl (Chair mail), M.ossrs. Merriniau, Moor, (Jen. Botha, and Mr. Fischer.
Ainmintcil ^!)lli January, 1!M)!J (page 2-'5")). /{.'/.nrt,;/ :!()! h January.' !!)()!) (page ^!(i).
SK.( TIO.VS •'!!) AND 40 OK DRAFT SorTii AFRICA A CT : Tlie Presi- dent (( 'lunniKtn ), Mr. Sauer, ])r. -Jameson, Mr. Moor, Col. Greene, (ten. Snnils, Sir (reorge Farrar, M"(>s>rs. Stevn, Fischer, and Cogiilaii.
A i>iKi/ntcil 7th Mav, ]!!()!» 'page !2(iO!. Rcmrtnl Ttli Ma.' 1 <)()!.) f>ae 'J(iO.
SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION,
MINUTES OF PKOCEBDIXaS.
DUKUAN. MONDAY. IL'TII OCTOP.KR, !!)<>*.
1. The delegates assembled in the. Council Chat Town Hall at a (|iiartcr to twelve <> clock, a.m.
2. Air. Mtior moved : That the Ri^ht Honourable Sir. I. II. <ic Villiers he President of the Convention.
Agreed to. unanimously.
>//• Henri/ <lc VHIicrx from his place said : < lent Icmeii. I thank you for the "Teat, and signal honour which vou have done me bv electing me as Chairman of this Convention. 1 would have been quite content to take my part as an ordinary member, but 1 cannot shirk the responsibility \\hich your unanimous vote has imposed on me and I therefore place mv servic-s. such as they are, entirely at your disposal.
It is well, Gentlemen, that, we should at the outset clearlv understand the exact nature of the duties entrusted to us bv the different Parliaments which have appointed us as delegates. They have accepted the resolutions of the Pretoria. Conference to the effect that "'the best interests and the permanent pro.— peiity of South Africa can onlv be secured bv an earlv union under the Crown of (ireat Uritain, of the several se]f-<>'overnin<>; Colonies, and that the object ot the Convention shall lie "to con- sider and report, on the most desirable form of South African Union and to prepare a Draft Constitution."'
\\ e have a mandate, therefore, to enquire, not whether an earlv union is desirable, for that has already been decided upon bv our principals, but what form that union should take and what should lie the machinery lor hrinjjin"1 if into beinu'. There appears to be an unpre.-siou abroad that this Convention ]> inmiu' to la\" down the lines to lie Followed upon such questions a> the future native pnlicv of South .Africa, but I think von will ain'ee with me that questions of that nature can onlv lie dealt with bv us in so far as thev bear upon the immediate matters submitted to us for consideration.
The chief argument in favour of a closer union is that bv that means oiilv can we obtain one Legislature for all the Colonies of South Alrica that \\ill be able to cope wiih the n-reat problems which are common to all the Colonies and which thev cannot individnallv and at the same time effectual Iv deal with.
'1 Sor'ni AFKH AN NATIONAL CONVKNTIOX, 1908 — '09.
We cannot usurp the functions of such a Legislature, but at the same time we cannot avoid the discussion of the wider problems if such discussion becomes necessary for the due per- formance of the duties actually entrusted to us. The difficulties which we shall have to encounter are great enough without our goinii' out of our wav in order to add to them, but, I feel confident that thev will not prove to be insurmountable. Everything depends upon the spirit \\ith which we approach the performance of our task. Failure is certain if we start with a feeling of distrust and suspicion of each other and with the sole desire to secure as manv advantages as we can for our respective political parties or our respective Colonies. Success is certain if we give each other our fullest confidence and act upon the principle that, while not neglectful of the interests of those who have sent us here, we a''e. for the time being, representatives of the whole of 1'ritish South Africa. A great opportunity now lies before us and it is an opportunity which may not soon occur again. We have the best Aviehes not onlv of those who sent us but of ( ireat Britain and oi the Empire. No more striking proof could have been given bv (ireat Britain of her sympathy with our aspirations than the sending of the Squadron which lies at anchor in this harbour to greet the Convention. As to the feelings of the rest of the Empire1, if thev are at all reflected bv what I experienced lately in Canada they are more than sympa- thetic. The ardent wish was expre-sed to me by every Canadian statesman 1 met that our Convention may immediately lead to great and practical results. Wherever those of us Avho come from the Cape Cclonv have called on our way we have been greeted with enthusiasm and with the best wishes for our success. \\ ith so much to cheer us on we mav well proceed hopefully w th our difficult task and with the full determination not to dissolve until we have succeeded in framing a scheme of union which shall be durable and destined to create a strong and united. prosperous and contented South African nation within the l'old> of the British Empire.
The second resolution ol the Conference was "thai to the I 'nidi contemplated in the foregoing resolution Rhodesia -ball be entitled to admission at such time and on such conditions as mav hereafter be agreed upon. It was onlv ri^ht. there that representatives from Rhodesia should be admitted to deliberations, and on behalf of the Convention 1 take opportunity of bidding them a heart v welcome.
N/Y Ifinri/ then took the Chair.
'.\. 'I lir J'r/sxli nl read and put in the following telegrams : (\) I' nun the Secretary of State for the Colonies, London, to the President, ('loser I nion Convention, Durban.
Ill- Majesty has commanded me to ask von to recei\i- and to convey to the members ol the Convention at Durban an if his dee]) interest in the subject of Closer has brought them ton-ether, and of his cordial for the success of their deliberations animated bv
MlNfTKS OF PlMX'EKDINGS. .')
llioir whole-hearted desires and unswerving efforts for the common good of South Africa. Crewe.
( li ) From tin- Governor, Cape Town, to the Prime Minister of ( 'ape ( 'olonv, Durban.
\~2\\\ Oct. — Following from Secretary of State: Please transmit following message; to delegates representing Govern- ment of ('ape of (Jood Hope. As Secretary of Shite for the ('ninnies it gives me sincere pleasure on behalf of His Majesty's Government a> representing the people of the I'nited Kingdom to express then- profound sense of the im- portance of the meetings of the Convention at Durban and of the objects of Closer I nion which it has in view. It is to them a source of satisfaction that it should have been rendered possible to summon such a. Convention, and that they as advisers of His Majesty the king should be privi- leged to express the confident hope that its labours will produce results beneficial to South Africa. 1 feel sure that all His Majesty the King's self-governing Dominions will share in the feelings which prompt this message.
(in) From the Governor, Cape Colonv, to the President, National Convention, Durban.
12th Oct. — Please accept and convey to the members of the Convention the expression of mv keen satisfaction at the thought that their labours are actually commencing and of mv earnest hope that their deliberations mav be guided towards adequate solution in the best interest of the Kmpire of the ii'reat problems which have been introduced to their consideration bv the people of South Africa.
4. Mr. Mrrriiinni moved : That Mi1. M. T. Ste\ n be Vice- President of the Convention. A greed to. unanimously.
Mr. Slci/n expressed his thanks lor the honour which ha I been done to him. and placed his services at the disposal .-if the ('(in- vention in the capacity of \ ice-President.
•~>. M/'. Moor moved : That Mr. E. F. Kilpin b-- appointed Chief Secretary of the Convention, and that Mr. (i. \\. Hofmevr. Mr. A. M. N. de \ dhers. and Mr. (i. T. Plowman \\>- Secretaries to the Convention.
A Ll'reed to.
ii. The credent ials of the delegates attending the Convention were then put in as follows :
( i ) P>v Mr. M/ rriiiuin :
The Followiny are the delegates appointed tn represent the Colony of the ('ape of Good Hope m the Convention on the Closer I'nion of South Africa, vi/. : —
The Right Honourable Sir -1. II.de Villiers. P.C.. K.C.M.I,.-
( 'hief .1 list ice.
The Ri«.-lit Honourable Dr. L. S. .Jameson. P.C.. C.B.. M.L.A. The Honourable Dr. T. \V. Smartt. M.L.A.
4 Soi'TII A KKI CAN .\ATIO.\.\I. ( '<>.\ V K.NT IO.N , 1908 '09.
The Honour.iblc K. II. Walton, M.L.A.
Col. W. !•;. M. $tanford.C.B.,C.M.G., M.L.A.
.1. W. .! agger Esq.. M.L.A.
II. ('. van Hen-den Esq., M.L.A.
(J. II. Maasdorp Esq.. M.L.A.
Dr. .1. II. M. P.eek. M.L.A.
Tlit1 1 lonourahle F. S. Malan, M. L.A., Secretary For Agriculture.
Tin1 Honourable .1. W. Saner, M.L.A., Commissioner of Public
Works.
The Honourable .1. X. Mernman, M.L.A.., Prime Minister. Mr. K. F. Kilpin. C.M.G., Clerk of the House of Assembly, lias been appointed to be tlie Secretary for the Cape of (iood
(Sir<!.> JOHN X. ME RH I MAN,
Prime Minister. Prime Minister's* (Wee. Cape Town.
!>iith September, 1 <)()S.
(ii) By Mr. M<H»- :
The following are the delegates appointed to represent the Colony of Natal in the Convention on the Closer Union of South A frica. vi/.: —
The Right Honourable F. R. Moor. P.C.. M.L.A.
\V. 15. Morcom. Esq., K.C.. M.L.A.
T. Ilyslop. Es.j., J.P.. M.L.A.
The Honourable Col. E. M. Greene. K.C.. M.L.A.. and
The Honourable C. .1. Smvthe. J.P.. M.L.A. Mi1. <i. T. Plowimin has bei-n appointed to be the Secretary for the ( 'olonv of Natal.
(Sgd.) F. K. MCOR,
Prime Minister. I 'rune M mister s ( )tiiee.
Pietennaritxbnrg. Natal. Sth ( ieiober. 1 !)()S.
The following are the delegates appointed to represent the Colonv of the Transvaal in the convention on the Closer Union nl South A I riea. vi/..: —
Sir (i. II. Fiirrar, D.S.O.. M.L.A. Sir .1. P. Kit/patrick. M.L.A. II. L. Lindsay Kscj., M.L.A. fk-ii. S. \V. 'linruvr, M.L.A. (.en. .1. II. ,!,. in' Rev. M.L.A.
The Honourable II. C. Hull, M.L.A.. Colonial Treasurer. ( i en. i he Honourable ,1. C. Smuts. M. L. A.. Colonial Secretary. (Jen. the Right Honourable L. IJntha. P.C.. M.L.A.. Prime M ini-ter.
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS. ;>
Mr. (J. R. Hofineyr, Clerk of the Legislative Assembly, has l)een appointed Secretary for the Transvaal.
Dr. W. E. Bok. Private Secretary to tlie Kt. lion. L. Botha, lias been apj)ointed Official Interpreter to the Convention.
(Sod.) LOUIS BOTHA,
Prime Minister. Prime Minister's Office, Pretoria,
October, 190H.
(iv) P>y Mr. risrhcr :
The following are the delegates appointed to represent the Orange River Colony in the ('(invention on the Closer Union of South A f'rica, vi/.: —
Mr. M. T. Steyn.
Thi' Honourable .1. 15. M. Hert/og, M.L.A.. Attorney- General.
The Honourable C. R. de Wet. M.L.A., Minister of Agri- culture.
The Honourable A. Browne, I.S.O.. M.L.C. The Honourable A. Fischer. M.L.A.. Prime Minister. Mr. A. M. X. de Villiers, Clerk of the House of Assembly, has l)een appointed to be the Secretary for the Orange Kiver Colony.
(Sgd.) A. FISCHER.
Prune M inister. Prime Minister's Office, Bloemfontein,
b'th October, 190S.
(v ) By Sir Lan* Mirliell :
The Administrator of Southern Rhodesia, \\ith the advice of the Executive Council, has approved of the appointment of the following1 as representatives oi the Territorv of Southern Rhodesia at the Closer Union Convention to be held in Durban on 1 2th October. 19<>S : —
Sir William Henry Milton. K.C.M.G., Administrator.
The Honourable Sir Lewis Loyd Michell, Kt.
Charles Patrick John Coghlan Esq.. M.L.C.
(Sgd.) W. II. MILTON.
Adni'.nist rator.
(Sgd.) A. II. HOLLAND,
Acting Clerk of Councils. Salisbury.
2nd October, 1!K)S.
7. All the members of the Convention were piv-ent with tin- exception of Sir \\ iiham Milton and Mr. Coghlan.
8. '/.'/if f-'rc*i<l<'itl stated that the Convention had this inornino- attended in the Town Hall where before a large gathering of the citizens of Durban His A\ orship the Mavor had extended a cordial welcome to the Convention and that Mr. Henwood's good
(} SofTii AKHHAX XATIOXAI, Cox\ KXTIO.X, 1008 — '00.
wishes had been dulv responded to on behalf of the Convention bv the Prime Minister of the Cape of Good Hope.
!). Tin- J-'ri'titldit intimated that the following rules for the regulation of the work of the Convention were included in the resolutions adopted at the Pretoria Conference on the 5th May, 11)08, and had been confirmed by the Parliaments of the respective Colonies concerned, vi/. :
(i) The voting shall be />cr ca/iita, and not by Stales.
(ii) The Chairman shall have, the right of speaking and voting, and, in the event of an equality of votes, shall have a casting vote.
10. The Convention proceeded to frame; further rules and orders for its procedure.
Mr. Sniicr moved : That eight of the members entitled to vote shall form a quorum.
(ifii. Sn//rfs moved as an amendment : To omit " eight " and subsl it ute •• t welve.
After discussion.
Will; leave of the Convention.
The mniion propo-ed by Mi1. Saner was. withdrawn in favour of the amendment, which was put as the main question and agreed to.
Discussion ensued.
11. Resolved: That DJ . \V . K. l>ok be admitted to the Chamber for the purpose of acting as interpreter in the Dutch language.
\'2. The Convention resumed the consideration of rules and orders.
Resolved: That the following further rules be adopted, viz.:
(\) Motions do not require to be seconded.
(ii) Members may speak more than once to the same question. (iii) Questions will be decided bv the majority of voices, fiv) IF the President's decision is challenged, there shall be a
division, the "Ayes" s'anding up and trie " Noes ' retaining t heir seats.
1.'), Mr. Mcrriman moved: That after this date the proceed- ings ol the Convention shall be absolutely secret : that, no records ol an\ speeches be made, but that records of all resolu- tions, proposals and amendments and of any divisions thereon he kept.
Agreed to.
14. //is I'l.n-clinn // Sir Mutt IK ir Nathan. /\.C.M.(i., Governor and ( ommander-m-('liief of Natal, was then announced, and having entered the Chamber and taken the Chair, which was temporarily vacated for that purpose bv the President, he said :
Sir Henry de Villier>. Mr. Stevu and Gentlemen,
()n behalf ol the Government of Natal. 1 welcome von to our Colonv and I express our pleasure that the threat National Con- vention is being held here.
Addressing as I am the most thoughtful men in South Africa, it would be superfluous for me to dwell on the evident magnitude
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS. 7
and importance of the task before them, a task on the just ful- filment of \\hieh (lejx'iids the future development of the suit- continent and the well-being of all its present inhabitants and of the generations that will follow after them. To this just fulfilment each and all of the delegates here assembled will, we know, bring a wise caution that will take advantage of the experiences of the nations that have been formed bv tin; union of states in the past, a bold imagination that will adapt the results of those experiences to our special conditions, a broad vision winch while seeing to the general good of the whole will not overlook the special interests of the parts, and above all a wide sympathy with all fellow-subjects of the Km pi re in South Africa, a sympathy that will take no account of racial differences, of geographical boundaries or of diversity of occupation.
The whole people of South Africa are looking to vou to devise for them a scheme which will unite them in a threat nation, a nation of white people, maintaining their viribtv and increasing in numbers, ruling themselves and a contented native population in the common interests of all, a nation governed in such a wav that the vast resources of the land may be developed and its productiveness may be constantly increased, in such a wav that a world commerce may be established commensurate with the favourable position of the country between western and eastern oceans and with the commercial instincts of its people descended from the two historic trading nations of Europe, in such a wav that peace »nd good order may be continuously main- tained within and security provided against attack from without, so that the IK w commonwealth mav add to and not draw on the strength of the Empire of which it will form part, in such a wav that education and the arts and sciences may advance so that in culture as in strength South Africa mav be amonu' the foremost nations of the world, and in such a wav as to carrv on through the coming centmies the ideals of honesty and justice, of courage and puritv which made great the nations from which British and Dutch in South Africa have sprung.
( ientlemen, I leave vou to your deliberations in the profound hope that under Divine guidance thev will lead to the creation of a great 1'nited South Africa and thereby add strength and lustre to the British Empire.
77/i" {'resident replied: \ our Excellency, before vou leave 1 wish to thank you for your attendance to-dav and for the practical manner in which vou have shown vour sympathy with the great objects which the Convention has in view. i on have placed a great ideal before us, but I am sure every one of u< will trv to attain it and 1 may take this opportunity of thanking not only yourself but the (iovernment of Natal for the manner in which thev have looked after the comfort of this Convention and have made all the necessary preparations for its meetings.
15. Sir Mntliinr Ac/////7// having retired, the President resume 1 the Chair.
K>. Col. Gnrnc moved: 'I hat one eopv of the Minutes of Proceedings of the Convention be handed daily to the several
N SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
Prime Ministers, and also to Sir William Milton on behalf of the Rhodesian members.
Mr. ll'iiltun moved as an amendment : That a copy of the Minutes of the preceding dav. witli the agenda foi1 the follow- ing sitting, he u'iven to each member: such copies not to he removed from the chamber.
.s/> I *>•/•(• i/ t-'ilz/iiit rirlt moved as a further amendment : That a eopv of tin1 Minutes of Proceedings, together with the agenda for the foil •)wini>- sitting, numbered and marked " Confidential ', he issued to each Member dailv, bound in portfolios, bearing the names of the member.- for whose use they are issued: such portfolios not to be removed from the Convention Chamber and to lie collected at each adjournment and kept in the custody of the Chief Secretarv.
After discussion.
With leave of the Convention, the original motion and the amendment propose 1 by Mr. Walton were withdrawn, and the amendment proposed bv Sir Percv Fitzpatriek was put as the main <|Urstion and agreed to.
! 7. (jntri-'il Smut* moved : That save as may lie other- wise decided upon, the sittings of the Convention lie held on each week-day from 9.30 a.m. to 12.30 p.m.. and from 3.30 to .">.30 p.m.
Agreed to.
is. Mr. Mft/an moved : That notices of motion may be given at
anv time for di><-nssion when so given : but that notices of which previous notice has been given shall have precedence.
A 'jived 10.
1M. Tin- I'l-'-xitlfiti read and put in telegrams of congratulation <ui the meeting of the Convention and conveying good wishes for the success of it< labours from Mr. S/inviner. Xewlands : Mr. Postnw. Burghersdorp : the Afrikander l>ond. Steynsburg : Adam Smith. Kokstad : Eendracht, Oudtshoorn : Ksselen. Pre- toria: ,(;i'i Luttig .Jr.. 'Prince . \Hert: C. J. Krige and Dr. \ iljoen. Caledon : and Miss Kmilv 1 loi;house. Pretoria.
2(». Mr. /• /xc/irr move;!: That the address delivered bv the President to-d;:y be incorporated in the Minutes. Agreed to.
-\. Mr. Miiliin mo\-( (1 : That a precis of the proceedings of this
morning, \\iili the addresses delivered, be handed to the pre>s tor publication: such precis to be submitted to the President I iet ore being issued.
Mi-. .I'll//!/ 1- moved as an amendment : That of to-day s pro- ceedings only the address of lli> Kxcellcncv the Governor and I he reply thereto of the President be eiven to the press.
A ft er discussion.
I his amendment was put and neo-atived.
lli" original motion was then put and agreed to.
--• < bi the motion of Mr. Saner, the Convention adjourned :it 1.2O p.m. until to-morrow, at !>..')0 a.m.
Ml.MTKS OK Plt<;(T.i:i)I.\;.<. <)
DURBAN. Tne^lin/. l.'J-III Oeluier. /W.
llalj ptixi nine <><•/<>(•/( a. n.
1. All the members were present.
2. Minutes o I' the previous meeting having been corrected in two points were confirmed.
.'5. The President stated that lie proposed to forward the follow- ing replies to the messages < pages L' and .">] from [[. M. and the Secretary of State for the Colonies, vi/. :
(i) From the President, National Convention, to th Secietarv. London.
1 have to bei!1 von to eonvev to His Miijesi v the humble thanks of Convention f<>r his n-racious message which wdl be a iiivat encouragement to delegates in the performance of then' ardn 'us task.
(ii) From tin; President. National Convention, to His Excellency the ( iovernor. Cape Town.
( )n hehalf of Convention 1 ha\e to request that ^ our Excellency will convey to the Secretary ot State for the Colonies the sincere acknowledgements of the delegates for the kind and encouraging message which yon transmitted to me yesterday from Lord Crewe, and also that you will accept the hearty thanks of the Convention for your own most cordial and sympathetic expressions of goodwill.
The replies were approved of.
4. 77/(" J'rcxit/eiit stated that messages of welcome had been received from His Excellency the Governor of the Transvaal and Tlis Excellency the Administrator of the Orange River Colon v in similar terms to the message already submitted to the Conven- tion from the Governor of the Cape Colony.
.">. 77/1" I'ri'f'nlcnt read and put in further telegrams of con- gratulation on the meeting of the Convention from : Hon. X. .1. JDe Wet. .M.L.C.. Aliwal North : Mayor and inhabitants, Carnar- von ; Hon. ,1. F. Lombard, M.L.C.. Riebeek Kast ; Griqualand West Farmers Association, Belmont Branch ; Moderator, Dutch Reformed Church of Natal; and the Supreme Grand President. Sons of England Society. King William's Town.
(i. The President submitted a telegram from the IIonorar\ Secretary of a Committee for the presentation of a petition on the question of women's franchise, asking for information how the petition may be presented and whether a deputation ot ladies would be permitted to attend for that purpose.
Mr. Merriman moved : That the n-nal Parliamentary course be adopted for the presentation of petition>.
Agreed to.
7. The President submitted :i letter from Mr. .1. M. Orpen. C.M.G., dated the 12th instant, on the subject of granting a fair share of representation to other than white citi/ens onlv of the liritish Empire in the South African Colonies and Territories, and further stated that Mr. Orpen had .-upplied comes of the letter for distribution amongst the members.
(ten. Smuts moved : That the copies of the lettel tributed amongst the members.
Ajjreed to.
10 SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
S. Mr. McrrhiKin moved :
(a) That it is desirable for the welfare and future progress of South Africa that the several British Colonies be united under one Government in a legislative union under the British Crown.
(b) That provision shall be made for the constitution of Provinces, with powers of local legislation and administration ; the present self-governing Colonies being taken as Provinces.
(c) That provision be made; for the admission into the Union, as Provinces or Territories, of all such parts of South Africa as are, not included from its establishment.
(d) That the Union shall be styled " South Africa." Discussion ensued.
Mr. Fischer moved, as an amendment, : In sub-section (b) to omit the words "local legislation and administration" and substitute " legislation and administration in local matters and in such others as may be specially reserved to be exclusively dealt with by each province separately."
On the motion of Col. Stanford, the debate was adjourned until to-morrow.
9. On the motion of Mr. Saner, the Convention adjourned at a quarter past twelve o'clock p.m. until to-morrow at half past nine o clock a.m.
DURBAN, Wednesday, HTH October, 1908.
Half past nine o'clock a.m.
1. All the Members wrere present.
^. Minutes of previous meeting confirmed.
•"). Resolved : That the President 'be authorised to transmit to the Governors of the Cape of Good Hope, the Transvaal, the Orange River Colony and Natal, respectively, copies of the daily minutes of proceedings as personal and confidential conunun (cations.
I. The President read and put in further letters and tele- grams of congratulation on the meetiny of the Convention, from: Griqualand West .Farmers' Association, Modder Uiver; Stelienbosoli Municipal Council: Dutch Reformed Church (George Circuit); and Dutch Reformed Church (Cape Town Circuit).
•">. Debate on Mr. Merriman's motion on the Union of !>!•(( ish South Africa resumed.
/tic !'i-(. •</<!(• n ' stated that when this debate was adjourned yesterday the question before the Convention was the motion which appears above, upon which an amendment had been moved bv Mr. Fischer: "In sub-section (b) to omit the words "local legislation and administration" and substitute ''legis- lation and administration in local matters and in such others a- mav be specially reserved to be exclusively dealt with by each Province soparnlelv."
Discussion resumed.
Mr. Mnrroin moved as a further amendment : Tn sub-sec- tion fa i to omit the words "in a legislative union:" in sub-
Ml. \UTKS OF I'tUH KKIMM.S. 11
section (b) to omit "for the constitution of Provinces wifh powers of local legislation and administration," and to sub- stitute "whereby;" and at the end of the same sub-section to omit "being taken as Provinces" and substitute "shall as such become States of the Union so created;" in sub-section (c) to omit ''Provinces or" and to substitute "States of the;" and in sub-section (d), after "stvled," to insert "the Dominion of."
Business suspended at half past twelve o'clock p.m.
Half past three o'clock p.7n.
Business resumed.
Mr. Ili'inrnc moved, as an amendment to Mr. Fischer's amendment : hi the words proposed to be inserted to omit "exclusively."
Col. (JITCI/C moved, ;is ;ni amendment to sub-section (b): To omit "for" and substitute "in:" and after "Constitution," to insert "for the establishment."
After discussion,
On the motion of Mr. Malan, the debate was adjourned until to-morrow.
(i. On the motion of Mr. Sauer, the Convention adjourned at twenty-five minutes past five o'clock p.m., until to-morrow at half-past nine o'clock a.m.
DURBAN, rimwlti!/, IOTU October, 1908.
Half past nine o'clock a.m.
1. All the Members were present.
2. Minutes of previous meeting confirmed.
:>. Debate on Mr. Merriman's motion on the Union of British South Africa resumed.
[he I' 'resident stated that when this debate was adjourn \1 yesterday the question before the Convention was the motion which appeared on page 10 of the Minutes: upon which the following amendments had been moved :
By Mr. Fischer: In sub-section (b) to omit the words "local legislation and administration" and substitute "legislation and administration in local matters and in such others as may be specially reserved to be exclusively dealt with by each Pro- vince separately."
By Mr. Morcom : In sub-section (a) to omit the wor is ' in. a legislative Union ;" in sub-section (b) to omit "for the con- stitution of Provinces with powers of local legislation and ad- ministration." and to substitute "whereby," and at the CTK! of the same sub-section to omit "being taken as Provinces" and substitute "shall as such become States of the Union so created:" in sub-section ((•} to omit "Provinces or" and to substitute "States of the:" and in sub-section (d). after "stvled." to insert "the Dominion of.''
12 SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
By Col. Greene: In sub-section (b) to omit "for" and substitute "in," and after "constitution" to insert "for the establishment."
By Mr. Browne, as an amendment to the amendment pro- posed bv Mr. Fischer: In the words proposed to be inserted to omit "exclusively."
Debate resumed.
4. Mr. Saner moved : That the Convention at its rising to- morrow adjourn until Monday.
Agreed to.
5. Business suspended at half past twelve o'clock p.m.
Half past three o'clock, p.m.
Business resumed.
0. Debate on Mr. Merriman's motion on the Union of British South Africa [page 10] continued. After discussion, "With leave of the Convention,
The sub-section (b) proposed by Mr. Merriman, and the •amendments thereon by Mr. Browne, Col. Greene and Mr. Fischer, were withdrawn.
Mr. Merriman moved : That the following be a new sub- section (b) : — That provision shall be made in the Constitu- tion for the establishment of Provinces with powers of legis- lation and administration in local matters and in such others as may be specially reserved to be dealt with by each Pro- vince separately, the present self-governing Colonies being taken to be the Provinces of the Union.
TJie President then put the amendment proposed by Mr. Morcom, which was negatived, vix. : That the motion read as fol lows : —
That it is desirable for the welfare and future progress of South Africa that the several British Colonies be united under (»ne government under the British Crown.
That provision shall be made whereby the present self- governing Colonies shall as such become States of the Union -o create;!.
That provision be made for the admission into the Union as Siates of the Territories of all such parts of South Africa as are not included from its establishment.
'! hat the I'nion shall be styled the Dominion ol: South Africa.
\Vith leave of the Convention, I/,-. Mrrritmni withdrew suit-section (d).
.'//•. II fiJ/nn asked the President whether under the motion as iiitw proposed it would be competent for the Union Parlia- ment to ileiine the number and extent of the Provinces of the I 1 1 1 o 1 1 r
7 /-I /'r('.--,:(}i'i>f stated thai if a legislative union is agreed •n in his opinion the ! nion Parliament would have •r to divide the Provinces as it thought fit unless there lie contrarv in the Constitution.
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS. 1:5
The motion proposed by Mr. Merriman, as amended, was then put and agreed to, vi/. : —
(a) That it is desirable for the welfare and future progress of South Africa that the several British Colonies be united under one Government in a legislative union under the British Crown.
(b) That provision shall be made in the Constitution for the establishment of Provinces with powers of legislation and ad- minis! rat ion in local matters and in such others as may be specially reserved to be dealt with by each Province separ- ately, the present self-governing Colonies being taken to he the Provinces of the Union.
(c) That, provision be made for the admission into the Tin ion as Provinces or Territories of all such parts of South Africa as are not included from its establishment.
T. The President read and put in a telegram from the Presi- dent of the Baptist Union, Alice, conveying good wishes for the success of the Convention.
8. Resolved : That replies be sent to telegrams and letters of congratulation.
9. The Convention adjourned at ten minutes to five o'clock, p.m.
DTTIUJAX, Friday, Km i October,
Half past nine o'clock, a.m.
1. All the Members were present.
2. Minutes of previous meeting confirmed.
•'!. The President read and put in a letter from His Ex- cellency Lord Selborne, dated the Kith instant, acknowledging the first copies of the proceedings of the Convention, and con- veying an expression of his appreciation of the courtesy of the Convention in the matter: also his sense of the necessity for regarding these communications as confidential.
4. /7.v President read and put in a letter in the same sense from His Excellency Sir Matthew Xathan, dated the 15th instant.
5. Mr. Moo,- laid on the Table the draft of a TSritish South Africa Act, and intimated that he would move section by seel lor. .
(!. Tin~ Prc*ia'cii ' presented a petition which had been for- warded to him from 50 women of South Africa in opposition to the grant of the parliamentary franchise to women.
The petit ion was read .
7. Mr. 11 r<»i' nc moved : Thai a return be laid upon the Table of this Convention giving in respect of the four Colo- nies complete information as to the Public Debts, in the form shown in statement Xo. '-34 in Volume 11. of "The Govern- ment of South Africa." but brought up to the latest date and •signed bv the Auditors-General of the several Colonies.
14 Sorrn AHJKA.N NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
Mi. // !/.<lf>// moved, as an amendment: To add "Also re- turns giving :
(a) the ordinary revenue and expenditure for the various Colonies for the last three financial years, and the estimated revenue and expenditure for the current financial year, under the following heading's:—- (I) llailways; (II) Harbours; (III.) Posts and Telegraphs; (IV) Defence; and (V) Customs and Excise: and (1>) the total capital expenditure under the various headings showing1 separately the total capital expendi- ture in connection with llailways, Harbours, Customs, Posts and Telegraphs.
S/r I'l'rcij Fitzpatrick moved as a further amendment : That a Committee consisting -of one member nominated by the Prime Minister of each Colony and one to represent Rhodesia, be ap- pointed to agree (a) as to what statistical information relating to the financial affairs and position of various Colonies and British possessions may be usefully supplied to this Convention and (b) the form in which such information shall be prepared, and to take such steps as may be necessary to obtain the same. After discussion, With leave of the Convention,
The original motion and the amendment by Mr. Hyslop were withdrawn in favour of the amendment bv Sir Percy Fitz- patrick, which was then put as the main question and agreed to.
N. (-it'ii. Smuts moved:
(i) The Executive Government of the Union shall be vested in the Sovereign of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and shall be administered according to the well-under- stood principles of the British Constitution by the Sovereign personally, or by a Governor-General as his representative.
(ii) There shall be an Executive Council to advise the Sovereign, or his representative, in the Government of the Union, and the members of the Council shall be chosen and summoned by the Governor-General and sworn as Executive Councillors and shall hold office during his pleasure.
(iii) The Governor-General may appoint officers to administer such Departments of State of the Union as the Governor-General-in-Council may establish. Such officers shall hold office during the pleasure of the Governor-General. They shall be Members of the Executive Council and shall be His Majesty's Ministers of State for the Union. After the first general election no Minister shall hold office for a longer period than three months, unless he is or becomes a member of either House of the Parliament.
liv) Until the Parliament otherwise provides the Ministers >hall not exceed ten in number and shall hold such offices as the Parliament prescribes or, in the absence of provision, as the ( rovernor-( reneral d irect s.
(v) All powers and functions which at the establishment of the Union are vested in the Governor of a Colony, or in the
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS. 1">
Governor of a Colony with the advice of the Executive Council, or in any authority of the Colony, shall as far as the same continue in existence and capable. of being exercised after the Union, be vested in the Governor-General, or in the Governor- General-in-Council, or in the authority exercising similar powers under the Union, as the case requires, except such powers and functions as are by the Constitution or a law of the Parliament or the Governor-General-in-Council delegated to some other authority.
7' lie President proceeded to put the paragraphs Kcrintnn .
Paragraph (i) [page 14.] put.
Mr. Saner moved as an amendment: After " Governor" to omit " General."
After discussion, the consideration of this motion was post- poned to enable a motion to be moved descriptive of the title of t he Union.
!). Mr. Saner moved: That the Union shall be styled "The Union of South Africa."
l>r. Smart I moved as an amendment : To omit " The Union of " and substitute " British."
Mr. J<i;/(jcr moved as a further amendment : To omit ' Union" and substitute "Commonwealth."
Mr. Lindsay moved as a further amendment : That the Union shall be styled " South Africa."
After discussion,
The amendments proposed by Dr. Smartt and Mr. -Tagger, as wel! as the original motion, were withdrawn in favour of t!u> amendment bv Mr. Lindsav, which was then put as tin- ma in question and agreed to.
1C. Debate on paragraph (i) [page 14.] of the motion pro- posed by (Ten. Smuts resumed.
The amendment proposed bv Mr. Saner put and negatived.
M/-. \\ nlt/>n moved: To omit the words " well-understood."
Agreed to.
Paragraph, as amended, put and agreed to, viz.:
The Kxccutive Government of the Union shall be vested in the Sovereign, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and shall be administered according to the principles of the British Constitution by the Sovereign personaHv. or by a Governor-General as his representative.
Paragraph liii [ pa<re 14.1 put and agreed to.
' Mi paragraph (iiii pa<re 14."!.
Mr. II (iltnn moved: To add at the end "each Minister of State, being a member of either llou-e, -hall have the right to sit and -peak in both Houses, but shall vote only in the House of which he is a member."
Mr. Sauer moved: To omit all the word- after "Ministers of State for the Union .' '
I > r . /J<c/< moved: To omit the words " for a longer period than three month-" and substitute " bevond the period em-
l(i SOITII AFUICAN .NATIONAL COAVKMMON, 11)08 — '09. braced bv the sessions of Parliament following immediately
upon such cirri ion . After discussion, With leave of t he ( 'onvent ion,
' .'he amendment proposed by Dr. Beck was withdrawn. r 'he amendment proposed by Mr. Walton put and agreed to. r 'he amendment proposed by Mr. Sauer put and negatived. 'arugraph, as amended, put and agreed to, viz. : ' .'he Governor-General may appoint officers to administer such Departments of State of the Union as the Governor- General-in-Council may establish. Such officers shall hold office during the pleasure of the Governor-General. They shall be members of the Executive Council and shall be His Majesty's Ministers of State for the Union.
After the first general election no Minister shall hold office for a longer period than three months unless he is or becomes a member of either House of the Parliament. Each Minister of State, being a member of either House, shall have the right to sit and speak in both Houses, but shall vote only in the House of which he is a member. On paragraph (iv) [page 14.].
.I//-. Jti</;/cf moved: To omit all the words after "pre- scribes."
Gen. Hertzog moved: To omit all the words after " number."
After discussion, With leave of the Convention,
The amendment proposed by Mr. J agger was withdrawn. Mr. Mcn-iiiuni moved: To omit "ten" and substitute " seven."
Mr. Jagger moved : To omit " ten " and substitute "eight." The President put the amendment proposed bv Mr. Merri- man,
Upon \\hicli the Convention divided.
"AYES" 4. Fischer, Mr.
Fitzpatrick, Sir J. P,
15eck, Dr. Greene, Col.
Tagger, Mr. Hertzog, Gen.
Merriman, Mr. Hull, Mr.
Sauer. Mr. Tameson, Dr.
Lindsay, Mr. Maasdorp, Mr. Malan, Mr. " NOES " L>r>. Moor, Mr.
Smai-tt, Dr.
l)nili;i, Geu. Morcom, Mr.
Browne, Air. A. Smuts, Gen.
I'ur^er, TUMI. Smyth e, Mr.
De !a "Rey, Gen. Stanford, Col.
De Vniiers. Sir T. IF. Steyn, Mr.
De Wet. Gen. Tan Heerden, Mr,
Farrar, Sir G. H. Walton, Mr.
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS.
The amendment accordingly negatived.
Tho amendments proposed by Mr. .lugger iuid Gen. Herl/.og ]»l'.t and negat ived.
Paragraph as moved [page 14], put and agreed to.
On paragraph (v) [pages 14-15.],
Mr. Siii/cr moved: After " Parliament " to omit "or the Governor-! !eneral-in-( 'ouneil."
After discussion,
This amendment was put and agreed to.
Mr. // i/x/o/i moved: After "Constitution or' to insert "by."
Agreed to.
Paragraph as amended, put and agreed to, vix :
All powers and functions winch at the establishment of the Cnion are vested in the Governor of a Colony, or in the Governor of a Colony with the advice of the Executive Coun- cil, or in anv authority of a Colony, shall, as far as the same continue in existence and capable of being exercised after the Union, be vested in the Governor-General or in the Governor- General-in-Council, or in the authority exercising similar powers under the Cmon, as the case requires, except such powers and functions as are by the Constitution or by a law of the Parliament delegated to »some other authority.
11. On the motion of Mr. Sauer, the Convention adjourned at half-past twelve o'clock, D.DI., until Monday, the 1!Jth instant, at half-past nine o'clock, a.m.
DUPJUX. Monday, IJrrn October,
Half past nine o' cJ /><•/,• . a.m.
1. All the Members were present.
2. Minutes of previous meeting, after being amended in one point, were confirmed.
•'!. IJic President read the following draft of ;i letter which he proposed to write to His Excellency the High Commissioner on behalf of the Convention : —
1 am requested by the Members of the South African Xational Convention, over which I have the honour to pre- side, to ask you to convey to His Majesty the King their expression of their loyal gratitude for the gracious svmpathv with the people of South Africa in this important period of their history so signally manifested hv His Majestv in commanding the Cruiser Squadron under Rear-Admiral Sir Percy Scott. f\.C.\.O.. to proceed to Durban to o-reet the Convention .
They desire me also io a>k you to inform His Majestv'-- Government, and the Lords Commissioners of the Admiraltv. how greatly the presence of the Cruiser Squadron at Durban.
IS SOL-HI AFIUCAX NATIONAL COXVKXTION, 1908 — '09.
and the goodwill which its presence betokens, are appre- ciated by them.
( )rdered accordingly.
4. The J'rcxitlcHt. read and put in a letter, dated the 16th instant, from S. Estcourt, Rosmead Junction, making an offer of land at that place provided the Federal Capital is established there.
.">. '/'lie /'resident, read and put in a telegram from the Secretary, lloofd Bestuur, Xuid Afrikaanse Taalbond, Riebeek West, on the subject of affording equal rights to the English and Dutch languages.
(i. Gut. IlcHztxj moved: In order to effect a Closer Union of the Colonies represented at this Convention, and in order fullv to attain the object of its establishment, it is essential that both English and Dutch be recognised as the official lan- guages of the Union ; to be treated on a footing of equality and to possess and enjoy equal freedom, rights and privileges in all the various offices, functions and services of whatsoever kind or nature; of or administered by or under the Union ; and that all the records, journals and proceedings of the Union Legislatures, as likewise all Bills and Laws of the Union, and all official notifications of general public importance or interest published in the Gazette, or otherwise, shall be issued and published in both the English and the Dutch language.
After discussion,
Mr. J agger moved as an amendment : That the motion be referred to a Committee consisting of Gen. Hertzog, Col. Greene, Gen. Smuts, Dr. Jameson, and the President.
< hi the motion of Mr. Merriman,
The debate was adjourned until to-morrow.
7. Mr. Mcrri int/n moved: The legislative power of the Union shall be vested in a Parliament to be styled the Parlia- ment of South Africa and to be composed of the King, a Legislative Council, and a House of Assembly.
Mr. F/seJiei' moved, as an amendment: In the first line, 'legislative/' to insert "supreme": to omit " Legis- Council ': and substitute "Senate"': and to omit mbly " and substitute "Representatives."
Gen. Smut* moved, as a further amendment: To omit
Assemblv" and substitute "Commons."
A fter discussion ,
\\ ith leave of the ('(invention,
The amendment proposed bv Mr. Fischer, to insert the word
supreme," was withdrawn.
The amendment by Mr. Fischer to omit "Legislative
ouncil " ;uid substitute "Senate" put and agreed to.
Ml.NUTKS OF I'iUK KUMM.S. 1!)
The amendment by Gen. Smuts to omit "Assembly" and substitute " Commons" put, and the Convention divided:
"AYES" 10. ' XOKS " IS.
Burger, Gen. De Wet, Gen.
Farrar, Sir G. H. Fischer, Mr.
Fitxpatriek, Sir -I. 1*. llertzog, (j!en.
Greene, Col. Hull, Mr.
Jameson, Dr. Hyslop, Mr.
Lindsay, Mr. Jagger, Mr.
Moor, Mr. Maasdorp, Mr.
Smartt, Dr. Malan, Mr.
Smuts, Gen. Merriman, Mr.
Walton, Mr. Moreoni, Mr.
Stiller, Mr.
Smythe, Mr.
Stanford, Col.
Steyn, Mr.
Van Heerden, Mr.
Beck, Dr.
Browne, Mr.
De la Key, Gen.
The amendment accordingly negatived.
The amendment by Mr. Fischer, to omit " Assembly " and substitute ' Representatives " put, and the Convention divided :
"AYES" 13. ' XOES" 10.
Botha, Gen. Beck, Dr.
Burger, Gen. Browne, Mr.
De la Key, Gen. Farrar, Sir G. II.
De Wet, Gen. Fitxpatrick, Sir J. P..
Fischer, Mr. Hull, Mr.
Greene, Col. Jagger, Mr.
Hertxog, Gen. Jameson, Dr.
Hyslop, Mr. Lindsay. Mr.
Moor, Mr. Maasdorp, Mr.
Morcom, Mr. Malan, Mr.
Smuts, Gen. Merriman. Mr.
Smythe, Mr. Saner, Mi-.
Steyn, Mr. Smartt, Dr.
Stanford, Col.
Van Heerden , Mr.
Walton. Mr.
The amendment accordingly negatived.
*2() SOITII AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
The I'rcxidcnl then put the motion as amended, which was .agreed to, viz. : —
The legislative power of the Union shall be vested in a Par- liament, to lie styled the Parliament of South Africa, and to he composed of the King, a Senate, and a House of Assembly.
8. Mr. M cn-i iiiiin moved : It shall be competent for the Parliament of South Africa to make laws for the peace, order and good government of South Africa, and to provide by means of taxation or otherwise for the same, and to alter, repeal, or amend all laws at the date of this Union existing or in force in anv Colony forming part of such Union, save and except any laws dealing with the franchise or qualifica- tions of electors, existing at the date of such Union in any 'Colony forming part thereof, which laws shall not be altered except in the manner prescribed for altering the constitution of the Union.
Discussion ensued.
Business suspended at half-past twelve o'clock p.m.
Half-past three o'clock p.m. Business resumed.
9. The following members were nominated by the respective Prime Ministers to form the Committee on Statistics, ap- pointed by a resolution adopted on the Kith instant [page 14. j, viz.: Cape of Good Hope, Mr. Walton; Transvaal, Mr. Hull; ^Xatal, Mr. Hyslop; Orange Hirer Colony, Mr. Browne. Sir \V. H. Milton intimated that he would represent Rhodesia.
On the motion of Mr. Hyslop,
Mr. Browne was appointed convener.
10. Debate on Mr. Merrmum's motion on the powers of the Parliament [printed above] resumed.
Cnl. Stn/if />rd moved, as an amendment: To omit all the words after " part of such Union," and substitute " All sub- jects of Hi-; Maje^iy resident in South Africa shall be entitled to franchise rights, irrespective of race or colour, upon such qualifications as may be determined by this Convention."
->//-. L/ndsnij moved, as a further amendment: That the n, ot ion read as follows:— 'The Parliament of South Africa -liall have full power to make laws for the peace, order and LT'i-ud yo\ ei n mont of South Africa."
moved : To add at the end of Mr. Lind>av's save1 and except laws dealing with local mat- others as may under the Constitution be speci- o be dealt with by each Province separatelv." Ahcr discussion,
I'"' amendment propo-ed by Mr. Lindsay was put and d to, and the original motion accordingly dropped.
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS.
The amendment proposed by Mr. Hyslop was put, and the Convention divided :
AYES" 3.
Hyslop, Mr. Moreorn, Mr. Smythe, Mr.
NOES" 27.
H.
Fitzpatrick, Sir J. P. Greene, Col. Hertzog, Gen. Hull, Mr. -Tagger, Mr. Jameson, Dr. Lindsay, Mr. Maasdorp, Mr. Mai an, Mr. Merriman, Mr. Moor, Mr. Saner, Mr. Smartt, Dr. Smuts, Gen. Stanford, Col. Steyn, Mr. Van Heerden, Mr. Walton, Mr.
notice
Beck, Dr. Botha, Gen. Browne, Mr. Burger, Gen. De la Key, Gen. De Villiers, Sir J. De Wet, Gen. Farrar, Sir G. H. Fischer, Mr.
The amendment accordingly negatived.
With leave of the Convention,
Col. Stanford withdrew his amendment, and gave to move the proposed insertion to-morrow as a substantive motion.
11. ^f^. Merriman moved: All and singular the debts and liabilities of the Governments of the several Colonies at the time of the Union shall be assumed by, and shall become liabilities of, the general Government, and all assets of the several Governments forming the Union, including Crown Lands, Buildings, Railways and Harbour Works, shall be vested in the general Government of such Union, save and exeept those Buildings and Works which shall appertain to the objects in respect of which the Provincial Councils shall have the jurisdiction assigned to them.
Discussion endued.
On the motion of Mr. Hvslop,
The debate was adjourned until to-morrow.
\'2. On the motion of ^ir. Malan, the Convention adjourned
pa<t
lo
DriMiAX, Turxdtiy, 'JOT!! ftrlolirr, /-'"A.
IIul f- [Hist It/in n'clncl; a.m.
1. All the members were pre-eiit. 'J. Minutes of the previous meeting confirmed. •'!. Mr. MtiJdii presented a peiniou timn tin' Head Commit- tee of' the Afrikaans* he ChriMelijke \'rou\\'en Vereeniging, in
favour of c<iual rigln> for ihe Mn^-li-h and Dutch lano-uau'es. The net it ion was read .
'I'l Soi'Tii AFKK AX NATIONAL COXVKXTION, 1908 — '09.
4. Tin- I'rexident presented a similar petition from the ((range Women's Union, which was read.
."). Mr. Moor presented a petition from .1,4. 10 members of tlie Natal Women's Enfranchisement Committee, praying thai citizenship in United South Africa may lie granted to all women who possess the same qualifications as may he required of men.
The petition was read.
G. Mr. M«l(ui presented a similar petition from COS men and women of the Cape Colony, which was read.
7. Adjourned debate on motion by Gen. Hertzog on equal rights of English and Dutch languages [page 18.] resumed.
Tlie 1'rcsident stated that when this debate was adjourned yesterday the question before the Convention was:
In order to effect a Closer Union of the Colonies represented at this Convention, and in order fully to attain the object of its establishment, it is essential that both English and Dutch be recognised as the official languages of the Union; to be treated on a footing of equality and to possess and enjoy equal freedom, rights and privileges in all the various offices, func- tions and services of whatsoever kind or nature of or adminis- tered by or under the Union; and that all the records, jour- nals and proceedings of the Union Legislatures, as likewise all Bills and Laws of the Union, and all official notifications 01 general public importance or interest published in the Gazette, or otherwise, shall be issued and published in both the English and the Dutch language.
L pon which an amendment had been moved by Mr. Tagger: That the motion be referred to a Committee consist- ing of Gen. Hertzog, Col. Greene, Gen. Smuts, Dr. Jameson, and the President.
With leave of the Convention,
The amendment proposed by Mr. -Tagger was withdrawn. >'<*/• George Farrar moved, as an amendment : Both the Eng- lish and Dutch languages shall be official languages of the I nion, and shall be treated on a footing of equality, and posses^ and enjoy equal freedom, rights and privileges; all records, journals and proceedings of the Union Parliament shall be kept in both languages, and all Bills, Acts and notices of general public importance or interest issued by the I nion Government shall be in both languages. After discussion ,
The amendment proposed bv Sir George Farrar was put as the main question, and agreed to, and the original motion accord] nglv dropped .
M. Adjourned debate on motion bv Mr. Merriman on I. nion Asset< and Liabilities page 21.] resumed.
Tin- /'reside a I stated that when this debate was adjourned yesterday the question before the Convention was:
All and -ingular the debts and liabilities of the Govern- ments of the several Colonies at the time of the Union shall
MINUTKS OF PKCH Ki:ni.\(;s. 23
be assumed by and sliall become liabilities of the general Government, and all assets of Ihe several Governments form- ing the I'liion, including Crown Lands, Buildings, Railways and Harbour Works, sliall be vested in the general Govern- ment of such Cnion, save and except those Buildings and Works which shall appertain to the objects in respect of which the Provincial Councils shall have the jurisdiction assigned to t hem.
Debate resumed.
Mr. Hull moved: That the consideration of this motion be postponed until the Committee appointed to report on finance submit their report, and the whole subject of finance; relations comes up for consideration.
A fter discussion,
The motion proposed by Mr. Hull was put and agreed to.
!). Col. Stanford moved: All subjects of His Majesty resi- dent in South Africa shall be Entitled to franchise rights irrespective of race or colour upon such qualifications as may be determined by this Convention.
.!//'. Merrhnan moved, as an amendment : All laws dealing with the franchise and qualifications of electors at the date of the I nion in any Colony shall remain in force until repealed or altered by the Parliament of South Africa, provided that 110 such repeal or alteration shall take place except such repeal or alteration shall be carried by a majority of not less than three-fourths of the members of both Houses sitting and vot ing together.
After discussion,
Mr. Merrhnnn proposed to withdraw his amendment.
Mr. Moor objected.
1.0. Mr. H>I.<IOI> moved : That the Convention suspend busi- ness every morning at eleven o'clock for ten minutes.
Agreed to, and it being eleven o'clock, business wa< accordingly suspended.
Ten minute* /tnxt eleven o'clock a.m.
Business resumed.
11. Discussion on Col. Stanford's motion on franchise rights [printed above"] resumed.
Business suspended at half-past twelve o'clock p.m.
Business resumed.
1'2. Ili/' Pi't'xidenl presented:
(i) A petition, in three part-, from Cape Coloured people resident on the \\ itwatersraud, praving that in the Constitu- tion of a I'liitcd South Africa they may be admitted To equal political rights with the European population.
in) A supplementary resolution adopted by Cape coloured people at a public meeting held in Johannesburg on the Kith instant.
-24 SOITII AFKH AX XATIOXAL COXVKXTIOX, 1908— '00.
]-">. Discu.ssion on Col. Sianford's inoiion on franchise rights
| pa<T'' 2:>. j COlll ill 110(1 .
Mr. J(t</t/rr moved, as an amendment io Mr. Merriman's amendment : To omit all the words after " except," and sub- stitute "with the consent of a majority in both Houses .>}-' Parliament of the representative* of such Colony/'
Mr. \Vdlton moved: That the debate be adjourned until Thursday.
Mr. Mcrrimnn moved, as an amendment: That the debate be adjourned until to-morrow.
Ay-reed to.
.1-1. On the motion of Dr. Smartt, the Convention adjourned at twenty-five minutes past five o'clock p.m.
DTlMiAX. Wednesday, 21sT October,
Half-past nine o'cl
1. All the members were present.
2. Mr. J a </</('>• presented a petition from 7,200 women of South Africa in opposition to the grant of the Parliamentary franchise to women.
•°>. Adjourned debate on motion by Col. Stanford on fran- ehixe rig-hts [page 23.] resumed.
The President stated that when this debate was adjourned yoterday the question before the Convention was:
All subjects of His Majesty resident in South Africa shall be entitled to franchise rig-hts, irrespective of race or colour, upon such qualifications as may be determined by this Con- vention.
I pon which an amendment had been moved by Mr. Merri- nian: All laws dealing- with the franchise and qualifications of electors at the date of the ('111011 in any Colony shall remain in force until repealed or altered by the Parliament of South Africa, provided that no such repeal or alteration shall take place except such repeal or alteration shall he car- ried by a majority of not less than three-fourths of the mem- bei-> of both Houses sitting and voting- together.
I pon \vhich amendment, an amendment had been moved !>y Mr. -1 agger: To omit all the words after "except," and substitute " with the consent of a majority in both Houses of Parliament of the representatives of such Colony."
1 )el »a i e resumed.
\\ nil lea ve of the ( 'onvent ion.
Ih1' amendments proposed by Mr. -Tagg-er and Mr. Merri- it lid ra \vn .
moved, as an amendment: To add " Onlv Miropean descent shall be eligible for election a- either House of Parliament." •mspended at eleven o'clock a.m.
MlMJTKS OF 1,'HOCKKDINOS.
Ten minutes xi^l eleven o'clock a. in.
Business resumed.
-1. Minutes of previous meeting confirmed.
5. Mr. lii-oirne, reported the action taken by the Statistical Committee and the probable period, required to complete their work, and asked the Convention to confirm the arrangement made by the Committee that the Hon. R. II. Brand should act in t he capacity of Secretary to the Committee.
< )rdcred accordingly.
(>. Debate on Col. Stanford's motion on franchise rights [ page '2'\. \ continued.
Discussion resumed.
Mr. Mem man moved: The adjournment of the debate.
A fter discussion,
\\"ilh leave of the Convention,
This motion was withdrawn.
Business suspended at half-past twelve o'clock p.m.
Half-past llirec o'clock /t.-m.
Business resumed.
After discussion,
On the motion of Mr. Van Heerden : The debate was ad- journed until to-morrow.
7. On the motion of Dr. Sinartt, tin; Convention ad- journed at half-past five o'clock p.m.
DITKBAX, Thursday, 'J'JxD October, HlUS.
Half- /Hist nine o rJ /><•/,• a.m.
I. All the members were present.
"2. Mr. J(i(/!/cr presented a letter, dated the IGth instant, from the Mon. Dr. -I. 1'etersen, M.L.C., President of the; Naturalization Keform Association, Cape Town, asking that the Convention will give full consideration to the necessity of a modification of the existing law on this subject.
The Idler was read.
•'!. Mr. Sfiner presented a petition from l.47!> men and women of the (.'ape Colony praying that citizenship in ( nited South Africa may he granted lo all women who possess 1 he same qualifications as mav be required from men.
The pet it ion was read .
4. Adjourned debate on motion bv Col. Stanford on fran- chise rights [page 2:>.~| resumed.
The President stated that when this debate was adjourned yesterday, the question before the Convention was:
All subjects of His Majesty resident in South Africa shall be entitled to franchise rights irrespective of race or colour upon such qualifications as may be determined by this Con- vention.
20 SOITII AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
('poii whirl) an amendment had Loon moved by Col. Greene: T<> add " Only persons of European descent shall be eli'nble for election as members of either House of Parlia-
r*>
ment."
Debate resumed.
Business siisj)ended at eleven o'clock a.m.
'I en >n/i> utes [ia*t eleven o'clock a.m.
Business resumed.
"). Minutes of pi'evious meeting confirmed.
(i. ])iscussion on Col. Stanford's motion on franchise rights [ page '2'-\. ! cont inucd.
>'//• /Y/vy Fitzpatriclt moved : That the debate on this motion be adjourned, and the matter referred to a Committee consisting of two delegates from each Colony, to be appointed bv their respective Prime Ministers, and one from llhodesia, to be appointed by Sir William Milton. That the reference to the Committee be to consider whether the native and coloured population of South Africa should be directly repre- sented in the Legislatures of the I'liion; if so, in what manner and on what conditions the right of representation should be conferred and exercised; if not, what constitutional provision should be made for enabling the Cnion Government to ascer- tain the wishes and consult the interests of the native and coloured populat ion.
(itn. Itullia moved: That tin1 original motion, and all the amendments thereon, together with the proposals bv Mr. Merriimui [page '2:> I. Mr. J a »•»•(' r [page ^4 i. and Gen. Smuts, \\y.. :
The various electoral laws of the Colonies shall, until aliered bv the Parliament, continue to apply, imitat/* ni iitu ml i.<, to electors for the House of Assembly in the corresponding provinces, subject to the application of tin1 principle of proportional representation. The qualifica- tion of voters in the provinces shall, similarly, be identi- cal with those existing in the Colonies at the establish- ment of the I nion, save in regard to the following matters :
(a; naturalization in any one Colony shall entitle the person nat ura I i -ei] to be registered as a voter in that of a ny 01 her provi nee :
(b) residence in South Africa for three vcars previous to registration shall be nece>sarv.
And the amendment proposed thereto bv Dr. Ueck. vi/. :
in line -i, after " representation. ' 10 insert '" provided that in -o tar as these laws applv to native electors in the Cap*1 ( obmy. there shall be no >uch alteration, except in the manner prescribed for altering the Constitution of the ['nion." be referred 10 a Committee with an instruction to prepare the
MINUTF.S OF PROCEEDINGS. 27
draft of a resolution in reference thereto for submission 1o the Convent ion, and (hat Ihe Committee consist of two delegates nominated l>v ea<di Prime Minister and one nominated l>y Sir William Milton.
7. Tin- President, on behalf of the Convention, convoyed to (ien. I)e la Rev the congratulations of the delegates upon the occasion of his birthday, for which (ien. ])e la Key expressed his very cordial thanks.
Business suspended at twenty minutes to one o'clock p.m.
II til f-ji'i^t three o'clock /LIU.
Business resumed.
N. I )isciissiou (in Col. Stanford s motion on franchise rights [page 'J-'). | cont i lined.
Mr. /'"ixcl/cr moved, as an amendment to (ien. Botha's motion (page '-30. ] : To add "And that it be an instruc- tion to the Committee that save in so far as may be necessary to safeguard interests where natives have acquired the fran- chise, or other rights and privileges, it is undesirable and un- necessary that the Committee1 should frame resolutions ni re- gard to the future native policy of South Africa."
Mr. S<n/er moved : That the debate be adjourned, which was put and negatived.
After discussion,
The motion proposed by (ien. Botha was put and agreed to, and the motion proposed by Sir Percy Fitzpatrick accord- ingly dropped.
The amendment proposed by Mr. Fischer was put and negatived.
9. The following members were then nominated by the re- spective Prime Ministers to form the Committee just ap- pointed, viz. :
('<ij/c of (f'uoj Ilo/ie: Mr. Saner and Mr. Walton: .\<il<il: Mr. Smythe and Col. (ireene: TranxrfHil : Sir Percv Fitz- patrick and (ien. Smuts; Ortnnje Hirer Colony: (ien. Ilert- zog and Mr. Fischer; Sir William Milton intimated that Mr. Coghlan would represent Itliodctiu .
1". On the motion ol Mr. Jagger, the Convention adjourned a* twenty minutes to five o'clock p.m.
1)1" KHAN, FriJfiy, :>•",]{ i> October,
ll(ilf-[xi.<t nin
1. All the members \\"crc pi'c^tMit.
'J. Gen. timutx moved: For ten years after the otablish- ment of the l.'nion, and tliereatlcr until Parliament otherwise jirovides. The Senate -hall consist of '•]('> member-, and !j shall
2S Sot TII Ann CAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
l>e elected or nominated in respect of each Province in the manner following.
Mr. Ja<j(jcr moved, as an amendment: The Senate shall, until the Parliament otherwise decides, consist of 35 Mem- bers directly chosen by Ihe voters, and for the purpose of the election of Senators the Cnion shall be divided into seven electoral areas, namely :
Cape Colony into three areas. Transvaal into two areas. Orange Iviver Colony into one area. \atal into one area.
And each area shall return five members; to be elected by proportional representation.
Mr. Men-iinan moved, as a further amendment : After '• members." in line o, to omit all the words to the end, and substitute "to be chosen or nominated as follows."
Mr. Hijftloj) moved, as a further amendment: The Senate shall consist of thirty-six Members and nine shall be chosen by the Legislatures of each Province.
The Parliament may make laws increasing or diminishing the number of Senators for each Province, but so that equal representation of the several original Provinces shall be maintained, and no original Province shall have -less than nine Senators.
Discussion ensued.
Business suspended at eleven o'clock a.m.
Ten -minutes past elereii o'clock
Business resumed.
:>. Minutes of previous meeting confirmed. 4. On the motion of Mr. Smythe,
Ordered: That the several Colonies shall be recognised in the proceedings of the Convention in the following order, \'r/.. :
( 'ape of ( rood Hope,
Natal,
Transvaal.
< )range Hiver Colony.
• ». Discussion on (Jen. Smuts' motion on constitution of Senate [page ^7. continued.
\\ ith leave of the Convention,
The amendment proposed by Mr. Merriman was with- drawn .
Business suspended at half-past twelve o'clock p.m.
Half-past llu'ee o'clock p. in. Business resumed.
(i. Mr. Moi>r moved: That the Convention, at its rising to- day, adjourn un'il Monday. Air reed to.
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS.
T. Discussion on Gen. Smuts' motion on constitution of Senate [page 27.] continued.
Mr. F-ixclicr moved, as a further amendment : For ten years after the establishment of a Union, and thereafter until Par- liament otherwise provides, the Senate shall be composed of nine members for and elected in each of the Provinces con- stituting the Union, and an additional number, not exceeding- nine, to be nominated bv the Governor-General-in-Coimcil.
The /'resident moved, as a further amendment : For ten years after the establishment of the Union and thereafter until Parliament otherwise provides the Senate shall consist of thirty-two Senators, to be elected in the manner herein- after mentioned, and such additional members not exceeding- ten in number as shall be nominated by the Governor- General-in-Council : provided that in the selection of persons to be nominated as Senators the Governor-General-in-Council shall as to one-half of their number be guided mainly by their thorough acquaintance, by reason of their past or pre- sent official position, or otherwise, with the reasonable wishes and wants of the coloured races in South Africa. As to the remaining half of the nominated Senators, the Governor- General-in-Council shall have regard to their official or judicial experience by selecting only persons who have occu- pied in South Africa the position of a Judge of a Superior Court, Executive Councillor, Speaker of any House of Assembly, President of any Legislative Council, or Chairman of any Volksraad.
Mr. Fischer moved: That the further consideration of the original motion and the amendments thereon stand over until after the next motion by Gen. Smuts has been decided.
This motion having been put and negatived,
On the motion of Col. Greene,
The debate was adjourned until Monday.
8. Mr. Jayyer moved : That delegates be allowed to take away draft resolutions, but resolutions already agreed to shall not be taken out of the room.
Col. Greene moved: To add "but the name-, of the pro- posers shall be deleted from draft resolutions." After discussion, With leave of the Convention, This amendment was withdrawn. The original motion put and agreed to.
9. On the motion of Dr. Smartt, the Convention adjourned at half-past five o'clock p.m., until Mondav, the 26th instant, at half-past nine o'clock a.m.
:>o Soi TII AFKHA\ XATIOXAF. CO.VVKXTIOX, 1908 — '09.
DUHBAX, Montlfii/, 2GTH October, 190S.
Half -past nine o'clock a.m.
1. All the members \voro present.
2. Y7/r /'resident put in :
(i) A letter, dated the 23rd instant, from the Mayor of Kroonsiad, in\ ii ing tlie Convention to meet at that place in the contingency of an adjournment from Durlmn, and for that purpose offering the use of the new municipal buildings there.
(ii) A congratulatory telegram, dated the 23rd instant, from the Head Committee of the South African Women's Federation.
•'>. Adjourned debate1 on motion by Gen. Smuts on constitu- tion (•[' ScJiate [page 27.] resumed.
'I lie President stated that when this debate was adjourned on Friday, the question before the Convention was the fol- lowing :
For ten years after the establishment of the Union, and thereafter until Parliament otherwise provides, the Senate shall consist of thirty-six members, and nine shall be elected or nominated in respect of each Province in the manner fol lowing.
I'pon which the following amendments had been moved : By Mr. J agger: The Senate shall, until the Parliament otherwise decides, consist of thirty-five members directly chosen by the voters, and for the purpose of the election of Senators the I'nion shall he divided into seven electoral areas, namely : —
Cape Colony into three areas. Transvaal into two areas, Orange 1'iver Colony into one area, X at a 1 into one area ;
«ui(l each area shall return five members, to be elected bv proportioiial represent at ion.
By Mr. IFyslop: The Senate shall consist of thirty-six members, and nine shall be chosen bv the Legislatures of each Province. The Parliament may make laws increasing or diminishing the number of Senators for each Province, bin so that e<|ual representation of the several original Provinces •-hall he maintained and no original Province shall hav" less t ha n n me Senators.
By Mr. Fischer: For ten years after the establishment of a I nion, and thereafter until Parliament otherwise provides, the Senate shall be comosed of nine members for and elected
tuting the Cniou, and an addi- nine, to be nominated bv the
By The President : For ten years after the establishment "| the I nioii and thereafter until Parliament otherwise pro- vides the Senate -hall consist of thirtv-two Senators 1o be
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS. .'il
elected in the manner hereinafter mentioned, and such addi- tional members, not exceeding ten in number, as shall he nominated by the Governor-General-in-Council, provided that in the selection of persons to be nominated as Senators the Governor-Gerieral-in-Council shall as to one-half of their number be guided mainly by their thorough acquaintance, by reason of their past or present official position, or otherwise, with the reasonable wishes and wants of the coloured races in South Africa. As to the remaining half of the nominated Senators the Governor-General-in-Council shall have regard to their official or judicial experience by selecting only per- sons who have occupied in South Africa the position of a Judge of a Superior Court, Executive Councillor, Speaker of any House of Assembly, President of any Legislative Council or Chairman of any Yolksraad.
Debate resumed.
Mr. Mtiltiu moved, as an amendment to the President's amendment : To omit " Mich " before " additional," and sub- stitute '"eight": to omit "members"' and substitute "Sen- ators "• to omit " not exceeding ten in number as shall " and substitute "to"; to omit "the reasonable wishes and wants of "; and to add at the end " or permanent head of a Govern- ment Department."
Dr. Keck moved, as a further amendment to the President's amendment : To omit all the words after " coloured races in South Africa."
Col . Greene moved : For ten years after the establish- ment of the Lmon, and thereafter until Parliament otherwise provides, the Senate shall consist of thirtv-six members, and nine shall be elected or nominated from or by ea<-h Province in the manner hereinafter mentioned: provided that in the selection of persons to be nominated as Senators the Governor- General-in-Council shall be guided as to one-half mainly by their thorough acquaintance, by reason of their past or pre- sent official position, or otherwise, with the needs and require- ments of the coloured races in South Africa: as to the remain- ing half of the nominated Senators the Governor-General-in- Council shall have regard to their official or judicial experi- ence by selecting only persons who have occupied in South Africa the position of a Judge of a Superior Court, Executive Councillor, Speaker of any House of Assembly, President of any Legislative Council, or Chairman of anv Volksraad.
Mr. Waiter moved, as a further amendment to the President's amendment : To omit " ten " before " in number " and sub- stitute "eight ": and al>o to omit all the words from "As to the remaining " to the end.
S/r (rcon/c Ffirrar moved, as a further amendment to the President's amendment : To omit " thirty-two " and substitute "twenty-eight": and to omit "ten" and substitute "twelve."
After discussion.
Sir Geor<re l"arrar'< -amendment to omit "' thirtv-two " and
Soi in AFKICA.N NATIONAL CONVKNTION, 1908 — '09.
substitute "twenty-eight ' was put, and the Convention divided :
•• AYKS," \2.
Bo'.ha, (fen. Burger, (-fen. De la Rev, Gen De Villiers, Sir Farrar, Sir G. Fit/patrick, Sir Hull, Mr. Jameson, Dr. Lindsay, Mr. Smartt, Dr. Smuts, Gen. Walton, Mr.
" XOKS," 18.
|
Beck, Dr. |
|
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Browne, Mr. |
|
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De Wet, Gen. |
|
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J. II. |
Fischer, Mr. |
|
II. |
Greene, Col. |
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J. p. |
Hertzog, Gen. liyslop, Mr. •1 agger, Mr. Maasdorp, Mr. Malan, Mr. |
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Merriman, Mr. |
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Moor, Mr. |
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Morcom, Mr. |
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Saner, Mr. |
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Sinythe, Mr. |
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Stanford, Col. |
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Steyn, Mr. |
|
|
Van Heerden, |
Mr.
Tho amendment accordingly negatived.
With leave of the Convention,
The remainder of Sir George Farrar's amendment was withdrawn.
Mr. Sauer's amendment to omit the last paragraph of the President's amendment put, and the Convention divided:
• AYES," 1C. '• XOKS," 14.
|
Beck, Dr. |
Botha, Gen. |
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Browne, Mr. |
Burger, Gen. |
|
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De Villiers, Sir J. H. |
De la Key, Gen. |
|
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De Wet, Gen. |
Farrar, Sir G. |
II. |
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Fischer, Mr. |
Fitzpatriek, Sii |
• J. |
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fieri xog, (fen. |
( f reene. ( 'ol . |
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Hyslop, Mr. |
Hull, Mr. |
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•1 agger, Mr. |
Jameson, Dr. |
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Maasdorp, Mr. |
Lindsay, Mr. |
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Malan. Mr. |
Morcom. Mr. |
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Merri man, M i . |
Smartt, Dr. |
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Moor, Mr. |
Smnis, Gen. |
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Saner, Mi-. |
Smythe, Mr. |
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Stanford, Col. |
Walton, Mr. |
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Sievn. Mr. |
||
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Vaii Heerden. Mr. |
amendment accordingly agreed to, and the amendment propn-ed !>v Dr. Beck, as well as the last part of Mr. Malan's amendment 10 add words at the (Mid, accordingly dropped. Ilia: [tart oi Mr. Malan'< amendment relating to the nnm-
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS.
ler of members of the Senate put and agreed to, and that part of Mr. Sauer's amendment relating thereto accordingly dropped.
With leave of the Convention,
Col. Greene's amendment was withdrawn.
Mr. Malan's amendment to omit " the reasonable wishes and wauls of " put and negatived.
Mr. Fischer moved, as a further amendment to the Presi- dent's amendment: To omit " past or present"; and to omit "position" and substitute "experience."
Agreed to.
The President's amendment, as amended, was then put as the main question and agreed to, viz. :
For ten years after the establishment of the Union, and thereafter until Parliament otherwise provides, the Senate shall consist of thirty-two Senators, to be elected in the man- ner hereinafter mentioned, and eight additional Senators to be nominated by the Governor-General-in-Council : provided that in the selection of persons to be nominated as Senators the Governor-General-in-Couneil shall as to one-half of their number be guided mainly by their thorough acquaintance, by reason of their official experience, or otherwise, with the reasonable wishes and wants of the coloured races in South Africa.
The original motion, and the remaining amendments thereon accordingly dropped.
4. Gen. Smuts moved: In respect of each Province, four of the elective Senators shall be elected by the members of the House of Assembly by proportional representation, and four shall be elected in the case of the first Parliament by pro- portional representation by the Parliament of each Colony as existing at the date of the establishment of the Union, the two Houses sitting and voting together, and thereafter the last mentioned four Senators shall be elected by proportional representation by the Provincial Councils.
Mr. Jaggcr moved, as an amendment: In respect of each Province, eight of the elective Senators shall, in the case of the first Parliament, be elected by a proportional representa- tion method by the Legislature of the Colony, both Houses sitting as one body, and thereafter shall be elected by a pro- portional representation system by the Provincial Council.
Sir Percy Fitzpatriclt moved : In respect of each Province, one-fourth of the elective Senators shall be elected by each Province voting by proportional representation as one con- stituency.
J/r. Mi'i'i'iinan moved: In respect of each Province, four of the elective Senators shall be elected by the members of the House of Assembly, and four, in the case of the first Parlia- ment, shall be elected by means of proportional representation by the Parliament of each Colony, the two Houses sitting and voting together, and thereafter such members shall be elected by proportional representation by the Provincial Councils.
c
34 SOI-TH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
Discussion ensued.
Business suspended at eleven o'clock a.m.
Ten minutes past eleven o'clock a. in. Business resumed.
5. Minutes of previous meeting confirmed. G. The President put in a telegram of congratulation from the Ivlipspruit Branch (Aliwal North) of the Afrikander
Bond.
7. Discussion on Gen. Smuts' motion on election of Sen- ators [page 33.] continued.
AViih leave of the Convention,
r_l he amendment, proposed by Mr. Merriman was withdrawn.
Mr. Pitcher moved : Each Province of the Union shall elect eight Senators on the principle of proportional representation; the mode of such election shall in regard to the first election be determined by the existing Legislature of each Colony con- stituting the Union, and thereafter by the Provincial Legis- lature.
Mr. Jti'oicne moved : To add to the original motion " Of the eight Senators to be nominated by the Governor-General-in- Council one at least shall be selected from each Province."
8. Mr. Steyn moved : That the Convention do now adjourn to enable the Franchise Committee to continue their deliber- ations.
After discussion, With leave of the Convention, This motion was withdrawn.
0. Discussion on Gen. Smuts' motion on election of Sen- ators | page 33.] continued.
Business suspended at half-past twelve o'clock p.m.
Half-past three o'clock p.m.
Business resumed.
Discussion on Gen. Smuts' motion on election of Sen- ators [page 33.] continued.
Mr. Lindsay moved : The eight Senators to be elected for each Province shall be elected by proportional representation by the Parliament of each Colony existing at the time of the I'nion, both Houses sitting together, and they shall hold office for 1en years; the Parliament of South Africa to deter- mine the manner of election thereafter. Any vacancy occtir- ring in the number of Senators during such ten years to be filled by election by the Provincial Council of the Province concerned.
Dr. S/n/irl/ moved : For the first Parliament, eight Senators shall be elected for each Province by proportional representa- tion by the then existing Legislature of each Colony, the two Houses siting as one body, and thereafter the elective mem- bers of the Senate shall be elected by proportional representa- tion in the manner following, viz.: The Colony of the Cape
MINUTES OF PBOCEEDINGS. 3£
of Good Hope shall be divided into three Provinces, the Transvaal into two Provinces, and Natal and the Orange River Colony shall each form one Province. The qualifica- tion for an elector for the Senate shall be as follows : (a) he must be a male of 25 years of age; (b) qualified as an elector for the Legislative Assembly; (c) the owner or occiipier of immovable property of the value of not less than £500, or in receipt of a salary of not less than £120 per annum.
10. On the motion of Mr. Saner, the Convention suspended business at twenty minutes past four o'clock p.m., until it should bo called together in order to enable a Committee to consider the original motion and the amendments thereon and to draft a proposal upon them for submission to the Conven- tion, the Committee consisting of Mr. Merriman, Dr. Jameson, Mr. Moor, Mr. Hyslop, General Botha, Sir Percy Fitzpatrick, Mr. Fischer, Mr. Browne, and the President ; the President to be Chairman.
And the Convention having re-assembled at twenty minutes past five o'clock p.m.,
The President reported that the Committee had not yet succeeded in arriving at any definite conclusion.
11. On the motion of Dr. Smartt, the Convention thereupon adjourned in order to enable the Committee to continue their deliberations.
DURBAN, Tuesday, 2TTH October, 1908.
Half-past nine o'clock a.m.
1. All the members were present.
2. Adjourned debate on motion by Gen. Smuts on Election of Senators [page 33.] resumed.
The President stated that when this debate was adjourned yesterday, the question before the Convention was the follow- ing:
In respect of each Province, four of tlie elective Senators shall be elected by the members of tlie House of Assembly by proportional representation, and four shall be elected in the case of the first Parliament by proportional representation by the Parliament of each Colony as existing at the date of the establishment of the Union, the two Houses sitting and voting together, and thereafter the last mentioned four Senators shall be elected by proportional representation by the Provin- cial Councils.
Upon which motion amendments had been moved by : Mr. Jagger [page 33.]: Sir Percy Fitzpatrick [page 33.]; Mr. Fischer [page 34.]: Mr. Browne [page 34.]; Mr. Lindsay [page 34.] : and Dr. Smartt [page 34.] ; and that a Committee had been appointed to consider the original motion and the
C -2
-36 SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
amendments thereon, and to draft a proposal on them [ page 35.].
The President then submitted the draft of a resolution adopted yesterday by the Committee, viz. :
There shall be eight elective Senators for each Province. For the purpose of electing the first thirty-two Senators the Houses of Parliament of each Province as existing at the estab- ment of the Union, sitting together and voting on the system <,f proportional representation shall elect not fewer than eight and not more than sixteen candidates, from among whom the Governor-General- in-Council shall select the requisite eight Senators for each Province.
The said Senators shall hold office for six years. Parlia- ment shall fix and determine the manner in which the eight Senators for each Province shall thereafter be elected, and the manner in which vacancies shall in the meantime be filled up.
The President moved: That the proposal of the Committee now submitted stand in lieu of the original motion and the several amendments thereon.
Agreed to.
Mr. Hyxlop moved, as an amendment to the Committee's proposal: After "elected" to insert "by such Province."
Upon which the Convention divided:
"AYES/' IT.
Browne, Mr. De Yilliers, Sir J. H. De Wet, Gen. Fischer, Mr. Fitzpatrick, Sir J. P. Greene, Col. Hertzog, Gen. Hyslop, Mr. Maasdorp, Mr. Malan, Mr. Moor, Mr. Morcorn, Mr. Sau or, Mr. Smythe, Mr. Steyn, Mr. Van Heerden, Mr. Walton, Mr.
The amendment accordingly agreed to.
Mr. S finer moved, as an amendment : To omit '' in the meantime," and substitute "during the said period of six years."
Agreed to.
Gen. , ///> moved, as an amendment: To omit "there- after " and substitute " for a further period of four years."
Upon which the Convention divided:
"NOES," 13.
Beck, Dr. Botha, Gen. Burger, Gen. De la Itey, Gen. Farrar, Sir G. H. Hull, Mr. Jagger, Mr. Jameson, Dr. Lindsay, Mr. Merriman, Mr. Smartt, Dr. Smuts, Gen. Stanford, Col.
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS.
" AYES," 23.
Beck, Dr.
Botha, Gen. Browne, Mr. Burger, Gen. De la Itey, Gen. De Villiers, Sir J. H. De Wet, Gen. Farrar, Sir G. H. Fit/patriek, Sir J. P. Hull, Mr. •Tagger, Mr. Jameson, Dr. Lindsay, Mr. Maasdorp, Mr. Malan, Mr. Merriman, Mr.
Sauer, Mr. Srnartt, Dr. Smuts, Gen. Stanford, Col. Steyn, Mr. Van Heerden, Walton, Mr.
Mr.
"XOES," T
Fischer, Mr. Greene, Col. Hertzog, Gen. Hyslop, Mr. Moor, Mr. Morcom, Mr. S my the, Mr.
The amendment accordingly agreed to.
The proposal submitted by the Committee, and moved by the President, was then put, as amended, as the main quo<- tion, and agreed to as follows :
There shall be eight elective Senators for each Province. For the purpose of electing the first thirty-two Senators the Houses of Parliament of each Province as existing at the estab- lishment of the "Union, sitting together and voting on the system of proportional representation, shall elect not fewer than eight and not more than sixteen candidates, from among whom the Governor-General-in-Couiieil shall select the requi- site eight Senators for each Province.
The said Senators shall hold office for six years. Parlia- ment shall fix and determine the manner in which the eight Senators for each Province shall for a further period of four years be elected by such Province, and the manner in which vacancies shall during the said period of six year- be filled up.
The original motion proposed by Gen. Smuts and T]^ amendments thereon, accordingly dropped.
3. Mi'. Ilyxlop moved : Parliament may make law- increas- ing or diminishing the number of Senators for each Province, but so that equal representation of the several original Pro- vinces shall be maintained, and no original Province -hall Jia-se less than eight Senators.
After discussion,
:>H SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
This motion was put, aiid the Convention divided:
" AYES," 5. Farrar, Sir G. H.
Fischer, Mr.
Greene, Col. Fitzpatrick, Sir J.I'.
Hyslop, Mr. Hertzog, Gen.
Moor, Mr. Hull, Mr.
Morcom, Mr. Jagger, Mr.
Smytlie, Mr. Jameson, Dr.
Lindsay, Mr.
Maasdorp, Mr. " NOES," 25. Malaii, Mr.
Merriman, Mr.
Beck, Dr. Saner, Mr.
Botha, Gen. Sniartt, Dr.
Browne, Mr. Smuts, Gen.
Burger, Gen. Stanford, Col.
De la Rev, Gen. Steyn, Mr.
De Yilliers, Sir J. H. Van Heerden, Mr.
De Wet, Gen. Walton, Mr.
The motion accordingly negatived.
4. Gen. Smuts moved: The qualifications of a Senator shall be as follows : He must be :
(a) Thirty years of age;
(b) Qualified to be registered as an elector in one of the Provinces ;
(c) Five years resident in the Union ;
(d) A British subject;
(e) Owner of immovable property within the Union of the value of not less than £500 over and above his debts and liabilities.
Mr. Jaf/f/cr moved, as an amendment : To insert before " Owner," in sub-section (e), '' In the case of an elected Sen- ator."
Dr. Snun-11 moved, as an amendment : In sub-section (e) to omit all the words after " less than " and substitute " £2,000 over all special conventional mortgages, or be the owner of movable or immovable property to the value of £4,000 over and above his just debts."
.I// . / t seller moved, as an amendment : To insert a new sub- sod ion (;n, " He must be of European descent."
Greene moved : To add to sub-section (d ) "of European descent.''
After discussion,
\\ itli leave of the Convention,
Die amendment proposed by Mr. Fischer was withdrawn.
The amendment proposed by Mr. Jagger put and agreed to.
Dr. Smartt's amendment put, and the Convention divided:
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS.
" NOES," IT.
Botha, Gen. Browne, Mr. Burger, Gen. De la Key, Gen. De Villiers, Sir J. H. De Wet, Gen. Farrar, Sir G. H. Fischer, Mr. Fitzpatrick, Sir J. I*. Hertzog, Gen. Hull, Mr. •I agger, Mr. Lindsay, Mr. Malan, Mr. Sauer, Mr. Smuts, Gen. Steyn, Mr.
The amendment accordingly negatived.
The amendment proposed by Col. Greene put and agreed -to.
Mr. Lindsay moved : In sub-section (e), to omit all the words after " over and above " and substitute " any conven- tional or special mortgages thereon."
Agreed to.
Dr. Beck moved : To omit " £500 " and substitute ;' £1,000."
Upon which the Convention divided :
"AYES," 13.
Beck, Dr. 'Greene, Col. Hyslop, Mr. Jameson, Dr. Maasdorp, Mr. Merriman, Mr. Moor, Mr. Morcoin, Mr. Smartt, Dr. S my the, Mr. Stanford, Col. Van Heerden, Mr. Walton, Mr.
"AYES," 16.
Beck, Dr. Botha, Gen. De Villiers, Sir J. H. Fitzpatriek, Sir T. T. Greene, Col. Hyslop, Mr. Jameson, Dr. Maasdorp, Mr. Merriman, Mr. Moor, Mr. Morcom, Mr. Smartt, Dr. Smythe, Mr. Stanford, Col. Van lleerden, Mr. Walton, Mr.
" XOES," 14.
Browne, Mr. Burger, Gen. De la IJey, Gen. De Wet, "Gen. Farrar, Sir G. H. Fischer, Mr. Hertzog, Gen. Hull, Mr. •Tagger, M'r. Lindsay, Mr. Malan,' Mr. Sauer, Mr. Smuts, Gen. Stevn, Mr.
The amendment accordingly agreed to. Mi-. Stiucr moved: To insert before "Owner, beginning of sub-section (e), "The registered.'
at
40 SOTTII AFIUCAX NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
Agreed to.
Motion, as amended, put and agreed to, viz.: —
The qualifications of a Senator shall be as follows: —
He must l>e :
(a) Thirty years of age;
(b) Qualified to be registered as an elector in one of t he- Provinces :
(c) Five years resident in the Union;
(d) A British subject of European descent;
(ej In the case of an elected Senator the registered owner of immovable property within the Union of the value of not less than £1,000 over and above any conventional or special mortgages thereon.
A. (rcn. Smuts moved: The Senate shall choose one of their number to be President of the Senate, who shall hold office till the next election of Senators, subject to removal by a vote of the Senate.
Col. Stanford moved, as an amendment : The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of South Africa shall be ex ofjicio the President of the Senate.
Mr. Jf/f/f/er moved : To omit " the next election of Sen- ators " and substitute " he ceases to be a Senator."
After discussion,
With leave of the Convention,
The amendment proposed by Col. Stanford was withdrawn.
Business suspended at eleven o'clock a.m.
Ten minutes past eleven o'clock a.m.
Business resumed.
0. Minutes of previous meeting confirmed.
7. Discussion on General Smuts' motion on President of Senate [printed above J continued.
Mr. WfiJfmi moved : To omit " till the next election of Sen- ators ;; and substitute " until the end of his term of office a? Senator and thereafter until his successor is appointed.''
After discussion,
7 he President put the question: That the words proposed to lie omitled stand part of the motion, which passed in the negative, aiid the words were accordingly omitted.
\\ ith leave of the Convention,
The- amendment proposed by Mr. Jagger was withdrawn.
7 IK /'ri's.drul then put the substitution in lieu of the words ; mined, of: the words proposed by Mr. Walton, which was ••.greed to.
Mr. Miilcn moved : To omit " President ' and substitute
Sjiea ker. "
Thi- amendment put and negatived.
Motion, as amended, nut and agreed to, viz.:
The Senators shall choose one of their number to be Presi- dent of the Senate, who >hall hold office until the end of his term of office a- Senator and thereafter until his successor is appointed, suliject to removal by a vote ot the Senate.
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS. 41
8. Mr. Mdltnt moved : The Senators to be nominated by •the Governor-General-in-GVnmcil without reference to the Parliaments in existence at the establishment of the Union shall be so nominated for a period of six years, and thereafter for a further period of four years.
Dr. Sinartt moved, as an amendment: To omit " six " and substitute " ten," and to omit all the words from " and thereafter " to the end.
After discussion,
This amendment was imt and agreed to.
Motion, as amended, put and agreed to, viz. :
The Senators to he nominated by the Governor-General-iu- •Council without reference to the Parliaments in existence at the establishment of the L'nion shall be so nominated for a period of ten years.
!). Mr. FfscJirr moved: Questions arising in the Senate shall be determined by a majority of votes, and each Senator shall have one vote. The President shall in all cases be entitled to a vote, and when the votes are equal the question shall pass in the negative.
Mr. Waiter moved : To omit the last paragraph and sub- stitute " In case of an equality of votes the President shall not have a deliberative vote, but only a casting vote."
Gen. Smut* moved: All questions in the Senate shall be determined by a majority of the votes of members present other than the President or presiding member, who shall, however, have and exercise a casting vote in case of an equality of votes.
After discussion,
AVith leave of the Convention,
The original motion, and the amendment thereon, were withdrawn in favour of the last amendment, which was pur as the main question and agreed to.
10. (JTCII. $/nntx moved: The House of Assembly -hall be composed of members directly chosen by the voters of tht> I'nion, and the number of such members shall be as nearly as practicable three limes the number of the Senators.
Mr. Merriinan moved, as an amendment : To omit all the words after "such members shall" and substitute ''until otherwise ordered by Parliament be as near as possible one hundred aii'i twenty"
Mr. Fitcln'r moved: The House of Assembly shall be
Directly chosen bv the votor< of the I nion for a period of ten
vears, and thereafter until Parliament shall otherwi>e decide
the members shall be distributed among the Provinces in
•manner hereinafter mentioned.
Business suspended at half-past twelve o'clock p.m.
Hal f-jinxt ilirci tt'rlork u.ui. Busiue-s resumed. •(TO). Siniil* moved: That the further consideration of thi-
4-2 SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
motion stand over until after the next two notices on the paper in his name have been discussed.
Agreed to.
(Jc». Smut* moved : The members of the House of A--embly shall be distributed among the Provinces in propor- tion to the respective numbers of their registered white voters, and shall be quadrennially redistributed on the same basis. All fractional quotients shall be disregarded and shall be ii'iven to the Province with the smallest number of white voters.
Mr. Merriment moved: To omit all the words after " num- bers of their " and substitute ' European population, and a tier each census shall be redistributed 011 the same basis. All fractional quotients in excess of one-half shall be taken as a unit of redistribution."
Discussion ensued.
On the motion of Dr. Smartt,
The debate was adjourned until to-morrow.
12. On the motion of Mr. Van Heerden, the Convention ad- journed at a quarter-past five o'clock p.m.
DURBAN, Wednesday, 28Tii October, 1908.
Half-past nine o'clock a. in.
1. All the members were present.
2. Mr. Merriman presented a petition from the African Political Organisation of coloured people resident in the Cape- ( 'olony, praying that the principle of equal rights to all civilised persons in South Africa may be embodied in the Con- stitution of the Union.
The petition was read.
• I. Adjourned debate on motion by Gen. Smuts on distri bution of members [printed above] resumed.
7 /if President stated that when this debate was adjourned \c^erday, the question before the Convention was a motion by (-ren. Smuts, viz. :
The members of the House of Assembly shall be distributed among the Provinces 171 proportion to the respective numbers • t their registered white voters, and shall be quadrennially re-distributed on the same basis. All fractional quotients shall be disregarded and shall be given to the Province with .he >7iialle>t number of white voters.
I |>cn which the following amendment had been moved by M i . Merriman :
T" omit ;,11 the words after "numbers of their" and sub- -; i'iiie ' European population, and after each census shall be- re-di>tribuied on the same basis. All fractional quotients in excess of one-half shall be taken as a unit of re-distribution."
Debate re>umed.
After discussion.
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS.
Mr. Saner moved: That the motions moved by Geii. 'Smuts on composition of House of Assembly [page 41.] and on .distribution of members [page 42.], together with the amend- ments thereon, and the motions on electoral areas and election of members, of which (ien. Smuts has given notice, viz.:
The members of the House of Assembly in each Pro- vince shall be chosen in electoral areas to be deli- mited on the principle that in each area the propor- tion between the number of members to be chosen therein and the number of registered voters therein shall as far as practicable be identical. The members of the House of Assembly shall be elected according to the principles of proportional representation. Jvach electoral area shall return in it less than three members.
be referred to a Committee for consideration, the Committee to consist of the President, the Prime Ministers of the lour Colonies concerned, and two Delegates nominated by each Prime Minister.
Mr. Fi sclicr moved, as an amendment: That the Committee consist of the President, the Prime Ministers, and one Dele- gate nominated by each.
This amendment, having been put and negatived, The motion proposed by Mr. Saner was put and agreed to. Members of the Committee were then nominated as follow- : Cape of Good Hope: Dr. Jameson and Mr. Saner; ^\ atal \ Col. Greene and Mr. Ilyslop ; Transvaal, Sir George Farrar and Gen. Smuts; Orange River Colony: Gen. Hert/orr and Mr. Browne.
4. Minutes of previous meeting confirmed.
5. Mr. Mdlan moved : That the Convention do now adjourn until half-past three o'clock p.m.
Sir Gearyc Farrar moved, as an amendment : That the (^in- vention do now adjourn until to-morrow.
And this amendment having been put and agreed to. the Convention accordingly adjourned at half-past ten o'clock a.m.
DFPJiAX, rittn-.xjfti/, 29-ni October, Half-past tliree o
1. All the members were present.
2. Minutes of previous meeting confirmed.
3. The President stated that, as the Committee appointed to consider the question of the constitution of the Assembly had adjourned yesterday afternoon until thi< morning, there •was no quorum present at the usual hour of meeting to-day.
and that he had accordingly adjourned the Convention tlli* morning until the hour for the afternoon sitting.
4. Gen. Botlia presented a petition from the African Political Organization of Coloured People resident in ^je
44 Sot TH AriucAN XATJOXAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
Transvaal, praying that ihe principle of equal rights to all' civilized persons in South Africa may be embodied in the- Constitution of the Union.
5. Col . Stanford moved : That the petitions of the Afri- can Political Organizations of Coloured People resident in the Cape Colony and The Transvaal, presented yesterday and to-day, be referred to the Committee on the Franchise.
Agreed to.
0. The I.' resident laid on the Table the resolutions adopted l.v the Committee appointed yesterday [page 43.] on the Con- stitution of th? -louse of Assembly in substitution of the motions proposed !>y (Jon. Smuts on composition of the H.-'UM1 of A>-e>mhiy j_page -l-l.] all(l °n distribution of members- pairc 42.1 a- well as the niotions on electoral areas and elec- tion of members [page 4-3.]. of which he had given notice a ii;l the Orders of the Day for the resumption of the debate on the two first motions were accordingly discharged.
T/ic I* resident- read the resolutions as follows: —
1. The House of Assembly shall be composed of members
directly chosen by the voters of the Union, and sub- ject to the provisions hereinafter mentioned, the said members shall be 121 in number.
2. For the period hereinafter mentioned the members of
the House of Assembly shall be allotted to the several Provinces in the following proportions: —
Cape of Good Hope 51
Xatal 17
The Transvaal 3G
Orange Paver Colony IT.
3. Until the number of members of the House of As-
sembly Las been increased as hereinafter provided TO .]•)() the representation of no original Province in the House of Assembly shall be less than that specified in the foregoing resolution.
4. In 1911, and every five years thereafter, a census of
the white population of the Union shall be taken foi the purpose of the Constitution. Immediately after th-' completion of each such census a readjustment of members of the House of Assembly among the Pro- vinces shall take place in the following manner: — The total number of white male adults of the Union ar ihc lust census before such readjustment shall lie divided by the number of members of the Hou>e of A— rinlilv to give tlie quota. Every Province who>e total number of white male adults has increased sim-e (lie la<t census, so that, after deducting therefrom the quota multiplied by the number of member> re- House of Assembly, it has a sur- number of white male adults at the ux equal to at least the quota 01 hall be entitled to an addi-
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS. 45
tional member, or additional number of members equal to such multiple in respect of any such in- crease. No such additional member or members shall, however, be elected before the first genera] election following such re-adjustment. As soon as the number of members of the House of Assembly reaches the total of 150, no further increase of repre- sentation shall be given to any Province, unless Parliament otherwise provides.
Resolution No. 1 [page 44] put and agreed to.
Resolution No. 2 [page 44] put and, after discussion, agreed to.
Resolution No. 3 [page 44] put and agreed to.
Resolution No. 4 [page 44] put.
Mr. Mala n moved, as an amendment : After the words "white male adults of the Union " to insert "being British subjects, but not being members on active service of the Im- perial Military or Naval Forces."
After discussion,
The President put the insertion of the words " being British subjects,"
Upon which the Convention divided :
"AYES," 9. Burger, Gen.
De la Rev, Gen.
De Wet, Gen. De Villiers, Sir J. H.
Fischer, Mr. Farrar, Sir G. H.
Hertzog, Gen. Fitzpatriek, Sir J. P.
Jameson, Dr. Greene, Col.
Malan, Mr. Hull, Mr.
Morcom, Mr. Hyslop, Mr.
Smartt, Dr. Jagger, Mr.
Stanford, Col. Lindsay, Mr.
Steyn, Mr. Maasdorp, Mr.
Merriman, Mr. Moor, Mr. " NOES," 21. Saner, Mr.
Smuts, Gen.
Beck, Dr. Smythe, Mr.
Botlia, Gen. Van Heerden, Mr.
Browne, Mr. Walton, Mr.
The amendment accordingly negatived.
27c? President then put the amendment : After '' Union " to insert, the words " not being members on active service of the Imp 2 rial Military or Naval Forces."
47) Sorrn AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
Upon which the Convention divided:
" AYES," 1C. "NOES," 14.
Beck, Dr. Browne, Mr.
Botha, Gen. Burger, Gen.
De la Rcy, Gen. Farrar, Sir G. H.
De Villiers, Sir J. H. Fitzpatrick, Sir J. P.
De AVet, Gen. Hull, Mr.
Fischer, Mr. Hyslop, Mr.
Greene, Col. Jameson, Dr.
Hertzog, Gen. Lindsay, Mr.
Jagger, Mr. Maasdorp, Mr.
Malan, Mr. Morcom, Mr.
Merrinian, Mr. Smartt, Dr.
Moor, Mr. Smuts, Gen.
Saner, Mr. Smythe, Mr.
Stanford, Col. Walton, Mr. Steyn, Mr. Van Heerden, Mr.
The amendment accordingly agreed to.
Discussion ensued.
On the motion of Mr. Merriman,
The debate was adjourned until the next meeting of the •Convention.
7. On the motion of Gen. Smuts, the Convention adjourned at half-past five o'clock p.m. until to-morrow at half-past :hree o'clock p.m.
DURBAN, Friday, 30Tn October, 1908.
Half -past tlirce o'clock p.m.
1. All the members were present except Mr. Steyn — absent through indisposition.
2. Minutes of previous meeting confirmed.
3. The President put in a telegram from, the Mayor of Har- rismith, inviting the Convention to that place for the re- mainder of the sitting.
4. Mr. Fischer moved: That, at its rising on Wednesday, the 4th November, the Convention adjourn until Tuesday, the 10th November.
Agreed to.
5. Adjourned debate on Resolution No. 4 of the Committee on Constitution of Assembly [pages 44-45] resumed.
T/ie President stated that when this debate was adjourned yesterday, the question before the Convention was the Resolu- tion No. 4, which had been amended by the insertion after
Union," where it occurs the second time, of the words " not being 7nembers on active service of the Imperial Military or N;iv;il Forces."
Debate resumed.
Gen. Smut* moved, as a further amendment: To omit all the words from " Every Province " down to " such increase,"
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS. ±7
and substitute " Every Province, whose total number of white male adults, divided by the number of members representing such Province in the House of Assembly, produces a quotient greater than the quota, shall be entitled to additional repre- sentation if the total number of its white male adults exceeds that of the last preceding census by a number equal to, or greater than, the quota, such additional representation shall be given by adding to the members allotted to such Province a number equal to whatever multiple its excess of white male adults over the last preceding census may be of the quota."
Mr. J agger moved: To add at the end "but the members of the House of Assembly shall be readjusted amongst the Provinces every five years on the basis of the white male adults."
After discussion,
This amendment was put and negatived.
Dr. Beck moved, as an amendment to Gen. Smuts' amend- ment : To insert a full stop after the word " representation."
After discussion,
With leave of the Convention,
The last amendment was withdrawn.
Dr. Smartt moved, as an amendment to Gen. SmutsT amendment: To omit "last preceding census" and substi- tute " census of 1904."
With leave of the Convention,
The amendments by Dr. Smartt and Gen. Smuts were with- drawn.
Resolution No. 4, as amended, put and agreed to, as follows : -
4. In 1911, and every five years thereafter, a census of the white population of the Union shall be taken for the purpose of the Constitution. Immediately after the completion of each such census a readjustment of members of the House of Assembly among the Provinces shall take place in the follow- ing manner: — The total number of white male adults of the Union, not being members on active service of the Imperial Military or Xaval Forces, at the last census before such re- adjustment shall be divided by the number of members of the House of Assembly to give the quota. Every Province, whose total number of white male adults has increased since the last census, so that, after deducting- therefrom the quota multi- plied by the number of members representing it in the House of Assembly, it has a surplus above the number of white male adults at the last preceding census equal to at least the quota or any multiple thereof, shall be entitled to an additional member, or additional number of members equal to such mul- tiple in respect of any such increase. Xo such additional member or members shall, however, be elected before the first general election following such readjustment. As soon as the number of Members of the House of Assembly reaches the total of 150, no further increase of representation shall be * Subsequently further amended ?C3 page 54. G.R.H.
48 SOUTH AFIUCAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
given io any Province, unless Parliament otherwise provides.
0. Gen. /S' in tits moved : Every House of Assembly shall con- tinue for a period of five years from the date of the first meet- mo- of Hie House, but may be sooner dissolved by the Gover- nor-General.
Agreed to.
7. Gen. Smuts moved: The various electoral laws of the Colonies shall, until altered by the Parliament, continue to apply in ut fit is 'mutandis to electors for the House of Assemblv in the corresponding Provinces, subject to the application of i!ie principle of proportional representation. The qualifica- tions of voters in the Provinces shall similarly be identical, with those existing in the Colonies at the establishment of the Union, save in regard to the following1 matters •
(n) Naturalization in any one Colony shall entitle the person naturalized to be registered as a voter in that of any other Province ;
(})} Residence in South Africa for three years previous t^» registration shall be necessary.
•I//1. Mci-riman moved, as an amendment : Until otherwise provided by the Legislature of the Union all the laws which •u-e in force in any Colony at the date of the Proclamation constituting such Union relating to the qualification or dis- qualification of every person to be elected, or to sit or vote a? to the qualification, or disqualification of voters and the oaths or declarations to be taken by voters, and by returning offi- cers, and the powers and duties thereof, and the proceedings at (Sections and the period during which such elections may be continued, and relating to the trial and decision of contro- verted elections and the proceedings incident thereto and the vacating of seats of members and the issuing of new writs m rase of any seat being vacated otherwise than by a dissolution, shall respectively be applied to the election of members to serve in the House of Assembly of the Union for those Pro- vinces in which such laws were passed.
Discussion ensued.
On the motion of Mr. Merriman, the debate was adjourned until Tuesdav.
7. Mr. Van Jfccrclen moved: That the Convention at its rising to-day adjourn until Monday.
Agreed to.
cS. On the motion of Mr. Van Heerden, the Convention ad- journed at five minutes past five o'clock p.m. until Monday, i he 2nd November, at half-past nine o'clock a.m.
DUttHAN, Monday, 2.\D Xovcmlcr, 1908.
Half-past nine o'clock a.m.
1. All thf-' members were present.
/• prorMited a petition from the African Poli- tical Orgnni/ation of Coloured People resident in the Orange
1 ' O
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS. 49
liiver Colony, praying that the principle of equal rights to all -civilised persons in South Africa may he emhodied in the Con- stitution of the Union.
On the motion of Col. Stanford,
This petition was referred to the Committee on the Franchise.
• '>. Gen. Smuts moved: The qualifications of a member • of the House of Assembly shall be as follows: —
He must be :
(.1) Qualified to be registered for the election of members of the House of Assembly in one of the electoral divisions of the Union;
(2) President within the Union for not less than three years.
Gen. Hcrtzog moved, as an amendment: To add:
" (.3) Of European descent."
Discussion ensued.
Sir Geoi'(/c Farrar moved : That the further consideration of this motion stand over until after the Franchise Committee has reported.
Agreed to.
4. Gen. Smuts moved: Save as modified in the Constitu- tion, all laws existing in the respective Provinces at the date of the establishment of the Union shall remain of full force and effect within the areas of the corresponding Provinces until repealed by Parliament or by the Provincial Legis- latures in regard to matters on which legislative powers have been delegated to them.
Mr. Malan moved, as an amendment : To omit the word " Legislatures " and substitute " Councils."
Mr. Hyslop moved, as a further amendment : To insert the words "reserved or" before "delegated."
Mr. Walton moved : Before " repealed " to insert " amen- ded or."
After discussion,
These amendments were put and agreed to.
Mr. FitcJier moved : To add " But any law made by a Pro- vincial Council shall have effect in and for the Province as long and as far only as it is not repugnant to any act of the Parliament of South Africa.
Agreed To.
Motion, as amended, put and agreed to, as follows: —
Save as modified in the Constitution, all laws existing in the respective Provinces at the date of the establishment of the 1 nion shall remain of full force and effect within the areas of the corresponding Provinces until amended or re- pealed by Parliament, or by the Provincial Councils, m regard to matters on which legislative powers have been re- served or delegated to them. But any law made by a Pro- vincial Council shall have effect in and for the Province as Jong and as far only as it is not repugnant to any Act of the Parliament of South Africa."
5. Gen. Snu/t,< moved: Proposed laws appropriating rev-
.')<) SOITH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
(Mine or moneys, or imposing taxation, shall not originate in the Semite. J3ut a proposed law shall not be taken to appro- priate revenue or moneys, or to impose taxation, by reason? oulv of its containing provisions for the imposition or appro- priation of fines or other pecuniary penalties, or for the demand or payment, or appropriation of fees for licences, or fees for services under the proposed law. The Senate may not amend proposed laws imposing taxation, or proposed laws- appropriating revenue or moneys for the ordinary annual ser- vices of the Government. The Senate may not amend any proposed law so as to increase any proposed charge or burden- on the people.
Mr. J agger moved, as an amendment: To add: — A pro- posed law which appropriates money for the ordinary annual services of the Government shall deal only with such appro- priation. Laws imposing taxation shall deal only with the imposition of taxation.
After discussion,
With leave of the Convention,
This amendment wras withdrawn.
The President moved : To omit the words " imposing tax- ation, or proposed laws appropriating revenue or moneys for the ordinary annual," and substitute "so far as they impose taxation or appropriate revenue or moneys for the."
Mr. Walton moved: To add "The Senate shall have the power to suggest amendments to such proposed laws, but if after consideration of such amendments by the House of Assembly they be not agreed to, then the Senate shall not have the power to insist upon such amendments."
.I//-. Merriment, moved : After " amend " to insert " reject."
After discussion,
The amendment proposed by Mr. Merriman was put, and; the Convention divided :
"AYES," 12,
Hook, Dr. burger, Gen.
Do la Key, Gen. Do Villiers, Sir J. H.
De Wot, Gen. Farrar, Sir G. H.
Fischer, Mr. Fitzpatriek, Sir J. F.
Hertzog, Gen. Greene, Col.
Jameson, Dr. Hull, Mr.
Malan, Mr. Hyslop, Mr.
Morriman, Mr. -Tagger, Mr.
Smnrtt, Dr. Lindsay, Mr.
Stoyn, Mr. Maasdorp, Mr.
Vnn 1 1 cordon, Mr. Moor, Mr.
Walton. Mr. Morcom, Mr.
Saner, Mr.
: XOKS,'' 18. Smuts, Gen.
Hot ha, Gen. Smythe, Mr.
Urownp, Mr. Stanford, Col.
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS.
This amendment accordingly negatived, and the amend- ment proposed by Mr. Walton dropped.
Business suspended at eleven o'clock, a.m.
Ten minutes past eleven o'clock a.m.
Business resumed.
Discussion on Gen. Smuts' motion on laws appropriating revenue or moneys or imposing taxation [pages 49-50] con- tinued.
The amendment proposed by the President put and agreed to.
Mr. Jmjucr moved: To insert thereafter " so as to increase the burdens on the people, but they may amend such laws with a view to reducing such burdens," which was put and negatived.
Gen. Smut x moved: To omit "or for the demand or pay- ment or appropriation of fees for licences or fees for services."
Agreed to.
Motion, as amended, put and agreed to, as follows: —
Proposed laws appropriating revenue or moneys or imposing taxation, shall not originate in the Senate. But a proposed law shall not be taken to appropriate revenue or moneys, or to impose taxation, by reason only of its containing provisions for the imposition or appropriation of fines or other pecuniary penalties under the proposed law. The Senate may not amend proposed laws so far as they impose taxation or appro- priate revenue or moneys for the services of the Government. The Senate may not amend any proposed law so as to increase any proposed charge or burden on the people.
0. Mr. Merriman moved : All Bills for appropriating anv part of the public revenue, or for imposing any new tax, or impost, shall originate in the House of Assembly.
Agreed to.
7. Mr. Merriman moved : The House of Assembly shall noi originate or pass any vote, resolution, address or bill for the appropriation of any part of the public revenue, fir of any tax, or impost, to any purpose not being first recommended by mes- sage from the Governor-General during the Session in which such Vote, Resolution, Address or Bill is proposed.
Dr. Smartt moved: To omit the word ''address."
Col. Greene moved: A vote, resolution or proposed law for the appropriation of revenue, or money>, shall not be passed unless the purpose of the appropriation lias in the >ame Ses- sion been recommended by message of the Governor-General.
After discussion,
These amendments were put and negatived.
The original motion was then put and agreed to.
8. Mr. Merriman moved : Any proposed law which appro- priates revenue or moneys for the ordinary annual service of the Government shall deal only with such appropriation.
After discussion,
The motion was put and agreed to.
9. Mr. Merriman moved : Laws imposing taxation shall -deal only with the imposition of taxation.
~t'2 SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
After discussion,
With leave of the Convention,
The motion was withdrawn.
10. Gen. ,S//n/f.s moved: If the House of Assembly passes- any proposed law and the Senate rejects or fails to pass it, or passes it with amendments to which the House of Assembly will not agree, and if the House of Assembly in the next Ses- sion again passes the proposed law, with or without any amendments which have been made, or agreed to by the Sen- ate, and the Senate rejects or fails to pass it, or passes it with amendments to which the House of Assembly will not agree, the Governor-General may, during that Session, convene a joint sitting of the members of the Senate and House of Axembly in the manner hereinafter provided, or may dissolve the House of Assembly, and may simultaneously dissolve bnth the Senate and House of Assembly. But such dissolu- tion shall not lake place within six months before the date of the expiry of the House of Assembly by the effluxion of time.
It after such dissolution the House of Assembly again pa>ses the proposed law, with or without any amendments which have been made, or agreed to by the Senate, and if the Senate rejects, or fails to pass it, or passes it with amend- ments to which the House of Assembly will not agree, the Governor-General may convene a joint sitting of the mem- bers of the Senate and of the House of Assembly, at which the Speaker of the House of Assembly shall preside.
The members present at any joint sitting, convened under either of the preceding sub-sections, may deliberate and shall vote together upon the proposed law, as last proposed by the Ilou*e of Assembly, and upon amendments, if any, which have been made therein by the one House of the Parliament, and not agreed to by the other, and any such amendments which arc1 affirmed by an absolute majority of the total num- ber of the members of the Senate and House of Assembly >hall be taken to have been carried, and if the proposed law. with the amendments, if any, so carried, is affirmed bv an absolute majority of the total number of the members of the Senate and House of Assembly, it shall be taken to have been duly ] inssed by the Parliament.
.I//-. Mcrrhnan moved, as an amendment : If the House of
.Wembly passes any proposed law and the Senate rejects, or
- to pass it, or passes it with amendments to which the
fnuse of Assembly will not agree, the Governor-General mav
convene a joint siding of the members of the Senate and
HOH ,<> of AsxMiiblv.
I lie menib»rs present at the joint sitting mav deliberate and sha!! vote together upon the proposed law a<s last proposed by 1'l(' House of Assemblv and upon amendments, if any. which have been made therein by one House and not agreed to by the other, and any such amendments which are affirmed by a majority of the total numbers of the Senate and the House of
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS. o3-
Assembly present at such sitting sliull be taken to 1)C carried, and if the proposed law with the amendments, if any, so carried, is affirmed by an absolute majority of the total num- ber of the members of the Senate and House of Assembly present at the sitting it shall be taken to have been duly passed by both Houses of Parliament and shall be presented t ) the Governor for the King's pleasure.
.I//. Jai/t/cr moved, as an amendment to the original motion: To omit all the words from " in the manner " down to "Senate and of the House of Assembly ': before "at which"; in the last paragraph after "any'' to insert '' such ", and to omit " convened under either of the preced- ing sub-sections."
After discussion,
With leave of the Convention,
The amendment proposed by Mr. Merriman was withdrawn.
Tlic I'rcxident then put the first part of Mr. Tagger's amendment, viz. : To omit all the M-ords from " in the man- ner " down to " Senate and of the House of Assembly " before "at which."
Upon which the Convention divided :
"AYES," 16. " XOKS," 11.
Beck, Dr. Botha, Gen.
Browne, Mr. Burger, Gen.
])e Yilliers, Sir J. H. De la Bey, Gen.
De Wet, Gen. Farrar, Sir G. H.
Fischer, Mr. Fitzpatrick, Sir J. P.
Hertzog, Gen. Greene, Col.
Tagger, Mr. Hull, Mr.
Jameson, Dr. Hyslop, Mr.
Maasdorp, Mr. Lindsay, Mr.
Malan, Mr. Moor, Mr.
Merriman, Mr. Morcom, Mr.
Sauer, Mr. Smartt, Dr.
Stanford, Col. Smuts, Gen.
Steyn, Mr. Smythe, Mr.
"\'an Heerden, Mr. Walton, Mr.
The amendment accordingly agreed to.
The remainder of Mr. Tagger's amendment, viz. : In the last paragraph after "any"' to insert ''such ", and to omit "convened under either of the preceding subjections," put and agreed to.
Mr. Me rr; nnni moved: To omit "an absolute", in two place-, and substitute "a": after "inajnritv of the", in two place-;, to omit "total number of the"": and after "As- sembly", where it follows in two place-;, to insert "present at such sitting". Discussion ensued. Business suspended at half-pa^ twelve o'cloc
* The \vonl-; " r-'tal number nf the" wore only omi;t<-l in .me i>I;ict- in the r.-ohition a- finally a.lopted ns \vcll as in the o.nvsiiMiimiir clau.-e of the South Africa Act a- as-cntcd to. G.R.H.
.54 SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
A quarter to four o'clock p.m. Business resumed.
11. Minutes of previous meeting confirmed.
12. Sir J'crcy Fitzpatrick moved, as an unopposed motion, and \vitli tlie unanimous consent of the Convention : To amend (lie resolution adopted on Friday last [page 47] on the re- adjustment of Provincial representation in the Union House of Assembly by omitting the words "after deducting there- from'' and s -instituting "it exceeds"; and after "As- sembly " by omitting " it " and substituting " and ".
Agreed to.
i-'i. Discussion on Gen. Smuts' motion on rejection by Sen- ate of proposed laws [page 52] resumed.
The amendments proposed by Mr. Merriman [Page 53] put and agreed to.
Motion, as amended, put and agreed to, viz. : —
If the House of Assembly passes any proposed law and the Senate rejects or fails to pass it, or passes it with amendments to which Jhe House of Assembly will not agree, and if the House of Assembly in the next Session again passes the pro- posed Jaw, with or without any amendments which have been made, or agreed to by the Senate, and the Senate rejects or fails to pass it. or nas<es it with amendments to which the House of Assembly will not agree, the Governor-General may during that Session convene a joint sitting of the members of the Senate and House of Assembly, at which the Speaker of the House of Assembly shall preside.
The members present at any such joint sitting, may deli- Iterate and shall vote together upon the proposed law, as last proposed by the House of Assembly, and upon amendments, if any, which have been made therein by the one House of the Parliament and not agreed to by the other, and any such amendments which are affirmed by a majority of the total number of the members of the Senate and House of Assembly present at such sitting shall be taken to have been carried, and it' the proposed law, with the amendments, if any, so carried, is affirmed by a majority of the members of the Sen- ate and House of Assembly present at such sitting it shall be taken to have been duly passed by the Parliament.
1-1. Mr. Mai a n moved : It shall be lawful for the Governor- General to dissolve the Senate and the House of Assembly simultaneously or to dissolve the House of Assembly alone: provided that the dissolution of the Senate shall not affect any Senators nominated by the Governor-General-in-Council.
Mr. \\ (titan moved, as an amendment: After "Or to dis- -olve " to insert " the Senate alone or''.
Mr. Mcrrinifin moved : To add " In the event of the Senate rejecting a measure for the annual appropriation of public funds, or for taxation, the Governor-General shall have the po\ver of di-M>Iving the Senate/'
Mr. Ja<i<j(r moved: To insert at the beginning "Xotwith-
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS 55-
standing anything to the contrary in the 14th Resolution [page 37] contained."
After discussion,
The amendments proposed by Mr. Walton and Mr. Merri- nian were put and negatived.
With leave of the Convention,
The amendment proposed by Mr. Jagger was withdrawn.
The original motion was then put, and the Convention, divided :
"AYES," 23. Merriinan, Mr.
Saner, Mr.
Beck, Dr. Smartt, Dr.
Botha, (Jen. Smuts, Gen.
Burger, Gen. Stanford, Col.
l)e la Key, Gen. Steyn, Mr.
Do Villiers, Sir J. II. Van Heerden, Mr. De Wet, Gen. Farrar, Sir G. II.
Fischer, Mr. "NOES," 7.
Fitzpatrick, Sir J. P.
Hert/og, Gen. Browne, Mr.
Hull, Mr. Greene, Col.
•Tagger, Mr. Hyslop, Mr.
Jameson, Dr. Moor, Mr.
Lindsay, Mr. Morcom, Mr.
Maasdorp, Mr. Smythe, Mr.
Malan, Mr. Walton, Mr.
The motion accordingly agreed to.
Mr. Hij^lu/i moved : To add " Provided also that no dissolu- tion of the Senate shall take place during the first six years after the establishment of the Union."
After discussion,
With love of the Convention,
This amendment was withdrawn.
Mr. Hi/slo/) then moved: To add "Provided further that should such dissolution of the Senate take place within the first six years after the formation of the I'liioii the vacancies shall be tilled up by the Provincial Council in the same man- ner as was originally provided for by the Parliament of the States forming the Union."
Ih . y/rr/' moved : To add to the original motion : " In the event of the dissolution of the first Senate before the ex- piralion of the period expressed by Resolution Xo. 14 | page 37"1, seats vacated shall be regarded as vacancies to lie filled up in terms of such Resolution ".
Gen. flcrt~ofj moved: To add " Fn case of a dissolution of the Senate1 within the lirsi six years after the establishment of the I'mon, the new Senate shall lie elected by the respec- tive Provincial Councils as near as may be in manner as pro- vided in Resolution Xo. 14 [page 37] for the election of the first Senate, provided that in no case shall the period for
So i TII AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
•which Mich a new Senate is elected exceed the period of ten years mentioned in Resolution No. 14".
After discussion,
The amendment proposed by Dr. Beck was put, and the •Convention divided :
"AYES," 10.
Beck, Dr. Botha, Gen. DC Yilliers, Sir J. H. Farrar, Sir G. H. Fitzpatriek, Sir -I. P. Hull, Mr. •Tagger, Mr. Lindsay, Mr. Smuts. Gen. Stanford, Col.
"XOES," 20.
Browne, Mr. Burger, Gen.
De la Key, Gen. De Wet, Gen. Fischer, Mr. Greene, Col. Hertzog, Gen. Hyslop, Mr. Jameson, Dr. Maasdorp, Mr. Malan, Mr. Merriman, Mr. Moor, Mr. Morcorn, Mr. Sauer, Mr. Smartt, Dr. S my the, Mr. Steyii, Mr. Yan Heerden, Mr AYalton, Mr.
Tlie amendment accordingly negatived. Un iho motion of Col. Greene, The debate was adjourned until to-morrors*. 15. Mi'. Fi*c7ter brought up the First Report of the Fran- .-hi>e Committee appointed by resolution of the Convention, laied the 22nd October, 190*8 [pages 20-27], recommending MIC i;)llov,-ing resolutions, viz.: —
I. The various Franchise Laws of the original Colonies ron- .-tituting the "Union shall, until altered by the Parlia- ment, continue to apply •imitatix mutfindis to electors for ihe House of Assembly in the corresponding Provinces: provided that no Act of Parliament shall at any time:
a) withhold the franchise from any persons by reason of their colour or race in any province wherein fran- chise laws at the time the Union Constitution takes effect admit of their inclusion:
ib) deprive any registered voters in any Province if and a- long as duly qualified to be on the voters' Hsi< by any la\v in force at the date of the establishment of the 1 uioii, of the right to remain on such lists: • deprive anv persons so qualified at any time but not ivu'i-'tered as voters at the time4 of the establishment oi i!.e I nion of the right to be so registered.
\uili intr herein stated shall prevent the Parliament of ihe
Tal law from altering the qualifications
MINUTES OF PIIOCEEDINGS. ^t
II. Only persons of European descent shall be eligible as Members of either House of Parliament.
III. Until Parliament otherwise provides, but subject to the Constitution, the laws in force at the establishment of the Union in each Colony entering- the Union as an ori- ginal Province relating to the election for the Legislative Assembly for such Colony, including the registration of voters, the oaths or declarations to be taken by voters, re- turning officers, their powers and duties, the proceedings at elections, the trial of controverted elections, and the proceedings incident thereto, the vacating of seats of Members, and the issuing and execution of new writs in case of a scat being vacated otherwise than by dissolution, shall mutatis mutandis apply to the elections in the pro- vince of Members of the House of Assembly.
[Y. Naturalization of persons of European descent in anv one Colony shall avail as naturalization throughout the Union.
Mr. Fischer moved : That the Report be now considered.
After discussion,
< )n the motion of Mr. Saner,
The debate was adjourned until to-morrow.
16. Gen. Smuts moved : That the Convention at its rising adjourn until to-morrow at half-past three o'clock p.m., in order to enable the Committee on Constitution of the As- sembly to deliberate.
Agreed to.
17. On the motion of Mr. Van Heerden, the Convention adjourned at half-past five o'clock p.m. until to-morrow at half-past three o'clock p.m.
DTRUAX, Tuesday, -">K]» Kin-ember, 1908.
Half -pax I three o'clock p. 'in.
1. All the members were proent. except Sir Le\\ MicheJl.
'2. Minutes of previous meeting confirmed.
•j. Tin- President put in:
(i) A letter, dated the olst October, from the Mayor ot (Jueenstown, setting forth the advantaye> of that place a- ,- capital for the I'nion :
(ii) A telegram from the Synod of the Dutch Reformed Mi.-sion Church, Paarl, conveying their good wishes for the success of the work ot the Convention.
4. Mr. ILoor presented a letter, dated the loth October, from Charles Daniel, ot Imbizana, Xatal, on the subject of the advancement of the natives.
o. The President brought up the Report of the Committee appointed by resolution of the Convention dated the '-28th
58 SOITII AFKICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
•October. 100S [page 4'J>] on Constitution of the Assembly, •recommending the following resolutions, viz. :
1. Immediately on the passing of the Constitution Act a Commission shall be appointed by the Government of each Colony, consisting of a Judge of the Supreme Court ;>t' such Colony and two other members. Such Commis- sion shall thereupon proceed to divide the respective Colonies into electoral areas for the first elections to be held under the said Act.
2. The whole number of voters in each Province, as nearly as can be ascertained, shall be divided by the number of Members of: the House of Assembly to be elected therein for the purpose of ascertaining the Provincial quota.
In making any distribution of Provinces into electoral divi- sions, the Commissioners shall give due consideration to :
(a) community or diversity of interests,
(b) means of communication,
(c) physical features,
(d) existing electoral boundaries,
(e) sparsity or density of population,
and subject thereto the quota of voters shall be the basis for the distribution, and the Commissioners may adopt a margin of allowance — to be used whenever necessary— but in no case shall such quota be departed from to a greater extent than 15 per cent, more or 15 per cent. less.
•3. The number of Members to be elected in each electoral division shall be three or more, unless the Commissioners decide in favour of a smaller number in special cas,-s of sparsely populated areas.
1. In every fourth year after the establishment of the Union the Goveriior-General-in-Couneil shall appoint one or more Commissions, each of which to be presided over bv a Judsje of the Supreme or High Court of a Province, lo carry out any redistribution which may have become necessary as between the different electoral divisions in each Province, and to provide for re-adjustment of any additional Members to which such Province may have become entitled under the provisions of the Constitution. In carrying out such redistribution and re-adjustment the Commissioners shall proceed upon the same principles a> in the original distribution and re-adjustment.
•"). The Members of the House of Assembly shall be elected according to the principles of proportional represent- ation, with the single transferable1 vote.
'llu1 Governor-General-in-Council shall make regula- tions for the preparation and issue of ballot papers pre- scribing the method of voting, the transfer and counting of votes and the duties of returning officers.
0. Adjourned debate on First Report of Franchise Com- 7ii!ttc<> ]>a<n^ .~)(;-~)71 resumed.
'J lie ]' r< >/il i ni stated that when this debate was adjourned
MINUTES OF PROCEEDING s. 59-
yesterday, the question before the Convention was the consi- deration of the First Report of the Franchise Committee.
On Resolution No. I. [page 56].
Mr. Saner moved : To omit all the words after " regis- tered," at (he end of sub-section (c), and to add at the end of that sub-section " unless and until Parliament shall by a general law alter the qualifications of voters throughout the Union."
Mr. JIull moved :
(i) The Parliament may by any general franchise law apply- ing throughout the Union, but not otherwise, prescribe the qualifications which shall be necessary to entitle persons to vote for the election of Members of the House of Assembly.
(ii) Until such a general law shall be passed, the qualifica- tions as existing in the several Colonies at the establishment of the Union shall be the qualifications necessary to entitle persons in the respective Provinces to vote for the election of Members of the House of Assembly.
(iii) Xo person who prior to the passing of any such general law shall be registered as a voter in any Province shall be removed from the Register by reason of his not possessing the qualifications prescribed by such law, or by reason of any dis- qualification based on race or colour.
Discussion ensued.
On the motion of Col. Greene,
The further consideration of this Resolution was ordered to stand over.
On Resolution Xo. II. [page 57].
Mr. Saner moved : That the consideration of this Resolu- tion stand over.
Agreed to.
Resolutions Xos. III. and IV. [page 57] put and agreed to.
On the motion of Col. Greene,
The debate was then adjourned until to-morrow.
7. Adjourned debate on motion by Gen. Smuts on Electoral Laws [page 48] resumed, resumed.
7 he President stated that when this debate was adjourned • on Friday, the question before the Convention was the fol- lowing : —
The various electoral laws of the Colonies shall, until altered by the Parliament, continue to applv iniititt/x ni i/tii/xlr.* to electors for the House of Assembly in the corresponding Pro- vinces, subject to the application of the principle of propor- tional representation. The qualifications of voters in the Pro- vinces shall similarly be identical with those existing in the Colonies at the establishment of the Union, save in regard to the following matters ;
(a) naturalization in any one Colony shall entitle the person naturalized to be registered as a voter in that of anv other province :
'60 SOUTH AFIUCAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — ?09.
(h) residence in South Africa for three years previous to registration shall be necessary.
Upon which an amendment had been moved by Mr. Merri- man, viz. : — Until otherwise provided by the Legislature of the Union, all the laws which are in force in any Colony at the date of the Proclamation constituting such Union relat- ing to the qualification or disqualification of every person to be elected or to sit or vote as a Member of the Assembly in tho said Colony, and relating to the qualification or disqualifi- cation of voters and the oaths or declarations to be taken by voters, and by returning officers, and the powers and duties thereof, and the proceedings at elections and the period dur- ing which such elections may be continued, and relating to the trial and decision of controverted elections and the pro- ceedings incident thereto, and the vacating of seats of Mem- bers and the issuing of new writs in case of any seat being vacated otherwise than by a dissolution, shall respectively be applied to the election of Members to serve in the House of Assembly of the Union for those Provinces in which such laws were passed.
Debate resumed.
\Vith leave of tiie Convention,
The amendment proposed by Mr. Merriman, and all except snb-sectiori (b) of the original motion, were withdrawn.
Tlie President moved: To omit "in South Africa," and substitute " within the Union "; to omit '' previous to regis- tration," and to add at the end "for the purpose of being registered as a voter."
On the motion of Sir Percy Fitzpatrick,
The debate was adjourned until to-morrow.
S. Adjourned debate on motion by Gen. Smuts 011 qualifi- cations of Members of the House of Assembly [page -49 j resumed.
TJte Prctulcii] stated that when this debate was adjourned yesterdav, the question before the Convention was the fol- lowing : —
The qualifications of a Member of the House of Assembly .hall be as follows :-
lie must be :
i 1) Qualified to lie registered for the election of Members ,if the Hou<e of Assembly in one of the electoral divisions of I lie Union;
i '-3) .licsident within the Union for not less than three years.
I poll which an amendment had been moved by Gen. Hert- /('U1, viz. :
To add :
('•'>) Of European descent."
Debate rc.Mimed.
( 'n the motion of Mr. Malan,
The debate \va-- adjourned until to-morrow.
9. Adjourned debate on motion by Mr. Malan on dissolu- ilie Senate and A^embly [page 541 resumed.
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS. 01
The President stated that when this debate was adjourned yesterday, the motion proposed by Mr. Malan had been agreed io, viz. :
It shall be lawful for the Governor-General to dissolve the Senate and the House of Assembly simultaneously or to dissolve the House of Assembly alone: provided that llie dissolution of the Senate shall not affect any Senators nomi- nated by the Governor-General-in-Council.
And it had then been moved to add provisoes thereto a< follows :
By Mr. Hyslop :
Provided further that should such dissolution of the Senate take plaee within the first six years after the formation of the Tnion the vacancies shall be filled up by the Provincial Council in the same manner as was originally provided for by the Parliament of the States forming1 the l.'nion.
By Gen. Hertxog:
In case of a dissolution of the Senate within the first six years after the establishment of the I'nion, the new Senate shall be elected by the respective Provincial Councils as near a^ may be in manner as provided in ^Resolution Xo. 14 for the election of the first Senate; provided that in no case shall the period for which such a new Senate is elected exceed the period of ten years mentioned in resolution Xo. 14.
Debate resumed.
Dr. Smnrtt moved: To add "Provided further that should any dissolution of the Senate take place within a period of ten years after the establishment of the Union, the elected Senators shall be chosen by the Provinces in such manner as the Parliament may provide."
After discussion,
With leave of the Convention,
The amendments proposed by Mr. Hyslo]) and Gen. Herf- zog were withdrawn.
The proviso proposed by Dr. Smart t put and agreed to.
Motion as amended put and agreed to, viz.: —
Tt shall be lawful for the Governor-General to dissolve the Senate and the House of Assembly simultaneously, or to dis- solve the House of Assembly alone: provided that the disso- lution of the Senate shall not affect any Senators nominated by the Governor-General-in-Council : jiroviued further that should any dissolution of the Senate take ]>la<-e within a period of ten years after the establishment of the Fnion, the elected Senators shall be chosen bv the Provinces in such manner as the Parliament mav provide.
1(). .I//-. Moor moved: The Legislature of any Province may make laws in relation to matters coming within the classes of subjects hereinafter enumerated, that is to sav :
(i) The amendment from time to time, notwithstanding anything in this Act. of the Constitution of the Province •except as regards the office of Governor.
Discussion ensued.
(52 Sorxn AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
On the motion of Col. Greene,
The debate was adjourned until Tuesday, the 10th instant.
.11. Gen Sin at* moved: That the Resolutions of the Fran- chise* Com in it lee [pages 5G-5T], and the amendments moved in the Convention on the consideration thereof [page 59] be re- ferred back to the Committee, with an instruction to bring up a report to-morrow.
Agreed to.
12. On the motion of Mr. Malan, the Convention adjourned nl a quarter to five o'clock p.m.
DURBAN, Wednesday, 4Tii November, 1908.
Half-past nine o'clock a.m.
1. All the members were present, except Sir Lewis Michell.
2. The Convention had under consideration the question of the time and place of the sittings of the Convention after to- day's adjournment, but postponed a decision thereon until after the suspension of business at eleven o'clock.
3. The President moved: That the Convention proceed to- the consideration of the motions on the Administration of •Justice, Nos. 1 to 12 as follows: —
1. There shall be a Supreme Court of South Africa, consisting of a Chief Justice, two ordinary Judges, the Chief Justices of the several Provinces forming part of the Union, and the Judge-President of the Eastern Districts Court.
2. The Chief Justice and the two ordinary Judges of the Supreme Court of South Africa shall be appointed by the Governor -General-in-Council and they shall hold office during good behaviour. They shall receive such remuneration as the Parliament may fix, but the remuneration shall not be diminished during their continuance in office. Judges and Advocates of the Supreme Courts of the Provinces shall be eligible to be so appointed.
'.'>. The Supreme Court of South Africa shall have original jurisdiction in all matters : —
(1 ) Arising under any treaty.
(•J) Affecting Consuls or other representatives of other countries.
(3) In which the Government of the Union, or a person suing or being sued on behalf of such Government, is a party.
(4) Arising under this Act.
(,"i) In which the validity of any Provincial Ordinance shall come into
question.
(it) Of Admiralty and Maritime jurisdiction.
(7) All'eeting the validity of elections of Members of the Union Parlia- ment, provided that on the trial of any election petition the laws in force at the time of the Union in the Province within which such petition shall be tried, shall mntatix nitit(tH(Ii* apply. (*) When the parties have in writing agreed that the case shall be heard
in the first instance before such Supreme Court of South Africa. 1. In lien of any appeal which may by law be made from any Court of any Province at the date of the establishment of the Union to the King-in- Conncil tin- appeal shall, subject to the provisions in the next succeeding section mentioned, lie made to the Supreme Court of South Africa without any further appeal t'> the King-in-Conncil, but nothing herein contained shall lie c.>nsmied to impair any right which the King-in-Conncil may be pleased to exercise to grant special leave to appeal from the Supreme Court of South Africa, in the exercise of either its original or its appellate juris-
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS. (;.'{
•diction, to the King-in-Council after due notice of an application for such •-special leave to appeal had been given to the- party respondent.
The Parliament may make laws limning the matters in which such leave may be asked, but proposed laws containing any such limitation shall be reserved by the Governor-General for His Majesty's pleasure.
f>. In lieu of the amounts which by the laws of the different Provinces may have been fixed as the lowest amounts in respect of which appeals can be made to His Majesty- in-Council, the sum of £'2~>n shall be the lowest limit for appeals to the Supreme Court of South Africa ; provided that it shall be competent for the said Supreme Court of South Africa to grant special leave to appeal in any case in which, owing to its public importance, it is desirable that such leave should be granted.
(I. Tt shall be lawful for the Judges of the Supreme Court of South Africa to make Rules for the conduct of its proceedings and the regulation of appeals from the Supreme Court of the Provinces, which shall be subject to the approval of the Governor-General-in-Council, and until such Rules shall have been promulgated the Rules in force in the Supreme Court of tin- Cape of (iood Hope shall imituti.t unit/nidi* apply.
7. Tlit> Supreme Court of Soutli Africa shall sit in
but may from time to time for the convenience of suitor* hold its sittings at other places within the Union.
8. In the exercise of the original jurisdiction of the Supreme Court three judges shall form a quorum. In the exercise of its appellate jurisdiction five judges shall form .1 quorum, but the Chief Justice of any Province, or the Judge-President of the Eastern Districts Court shall not take part in tin- hearing of any appeal against a judgment given in a case heard before him.
0. It shall be lawful for the Governor-Gencral-in-Couucil to appoint a Registrar of the Supreme Court of South Africa, and such other officers of the said Court as shall, in the opinion of the Chief Justice' thereof, be required for the proper despatch of the business of the said Court.
10. All Advocates and Attorneys of the Supreme Courts of the Province* shall respectively be entitled to practise as such in the Supreme Court of South Africa.
11. The administration of justice throughout the Union shall be under the control of a Minisiter of Justice, in whom shall be vested ;dl powers, functions and authorities which shall, at the time of the establishment of the Union, be vested in the Attorney Generals of the different Colonies, save and except the duty of prosecuting for crimes and offences, which shall continue to be performed by the Attorney-General of each Province, who. if not already a permanent officer, shall be entitled to remain in office until a permanent Attorney-General shall have been appointed for such Province by the Governor-General-in-Council.
1.!. All Judges of the Supreme Courts of the Provinces shall be otfieer* of the Union, and they shall retain all such rights in regard to salaries and pensions as they may enjoy at the time of the establishment of the Union.
Discussion ensued.
(rot. SniHtx moved: That these proposals be referred to a Committee consisting- of the President and two Members from each Colony, nominated by the respective Prime Ministers, and a representative from 1'hodesia, nominated by Sir Wm. Milton.
Mr. Mnlnn moved : The adjournment of the debate xhic <l/c.
The motion by Gen. Smuts having- been put and negatived,
The adjournment of the debate tine die was put and agreed to.
4. On the motion of the President,
The Convention suspended business at twenty minutes to •eleven o'clock a.m., in order to enable the Franchise Com- mittee to resume their deliberations.
(U SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
Ten minutes past eleven o'clock a.m.
Business resumed.
f>. Minnies of previous meeting confirmed.
G. Mr. Fixclicr in terms of the resolution of the Convention adopted yesterday [page G2] brought up the Second Report of the Franchise Committee making no alteration in Resolu- tion Xo. IF. of the Committee's First Report [page 57], but recommending the following in lieu of Resolution No. I. [pa go 5(1], viz. : —
il) The Parliament may, by law, prescribe the qualifica- tions which shall be necessary to entitle persons to vote for ihe election of Members of the House of Assembly, but no Mich law shall disqualify any persons .in the Province of the Cape of Good Hope by reavm of their race or colour only, unless such law be passed by a majority of two-thirds of the Members of each House of Parliament.
(2) Until such a law shall be passed, the qualifications as existing in the several Colonies at the establishment of the f n ion shall be the qualifications necessary to entitle persons in the respective Provinces to vote for the election of Mem- bers of the House of Assembly.
(•j) Xo person who prior to the passing of any such law shall be registered as a voter in any Province shall be re- moved from the register by reason only of any disqualifica- tion based on race or colour.
7. Adjourned debate 011 First Report of the Franchise Committee [pages 50-57] resumed.
The President stated that when this debate was adjourned ye-terday, Resolutions Xos. III. and IV. of the Conimit- ie<j'> First Report had been agreed to [page 59], and that amendments having been moved by Mr. Hull and Mr. Saiier on Resolution Xo. I. [page 59] that Resolution, together \vith Resolution Xo. II. [page 57] had been referred back to the Committee for further consideration, and that the Com- i:iit tee's Second Report [printed above j recommending other I'.-olntions in lieu of Xo. I., but reporting no alteration in Xo. IT., had been brought up this morning.
\\ ith leave of the Convention,
Resolution Xo. I. of the Committee's First Report, and the amendments thereon, were withdrawn.
Debate resumed.
Mr. Fiirltcr moved Resolution Xo. (1) of the Committee's Second Report, viz.: — The Parliament may, by law, pre- -cribe the <|ual iiirat ions which shall be necessary to entitle persons to vote for the election of Members of the House of A>-cmbly, but no such law shall disqualify any persons in
• Province of the Capo of Good Hope by reason of their race or colour only, unle>s Mich law be passed by a majority oi two-thirds of the Members of each House of Parliament.
Mr. M /linn moved, as an amendment : To omit the words " in the Province of the (.'ape of Good Hope by reason of their race or colour onlv," ;md substitute " bv reason of their
Mi.MTKs OF PROCEEDINGS. *>•>
colour of face in any Province wherein Franchise Laws at the lime llic I'liion Conslilulion takes ofVect admit of theii inclusion."
After discussion,
\Yitli leave of the Convention,
This amendment was withdrawn.
Mr. .M,il<in then moved: After "two-thirds of the" to insert "total number of the": to omit ''each House" and substitute "both Houses"; and to add at the end "sitting- as out' bud v.
Mr. Si/n/tlif moved : To omit all the words after " Assembly."
A her d ixi-u Nvioii ,
\\' it h lea ve oft he (.'on vent ion.
The amendment proposed by Mr. Malan was. withdrawn.
The amendment proposed bv Mr. Smvtlie put, and the Con- vent ion divided :
•' A VMS,' 0. Farrar, Sir G. II.
Fischer, Mr.
I)e la Ivey, (ien. Fit/pat rick, Sir -I. P.
Greene, Col. Hert/op;, (ien.
Hyslop, Mr. Hull, Mr.
Moor, Mr. Ja^-er, Mr.
Morcoin, Mr. Jameson, Dr.
Smvtlie, Mi. Lindsay, Mr.
Maasdorp, Mi-.
Malan, Mr. " NOES." 24. Merrirnan, Mr.
Saner, Mr.
Beck, Dr. Smart! . Dr.
Botha, (ien. Smuts, Gen.
Urowne, Mr. Stanford, Col.
Burner, (ien. Stevn, Mr.
DC Villiers, Sir J. II. Vaii Heerden, Mi-.
De AVet, Gen. Walton, Mr.
The amendment accordingly negatived.
(ten. /i</fl/>i moved: To omit all th<1 words alter " passed bv " and substitute " both Houses of Parliament sitting1 to- g-el her and a])proved of bv two-thirds of the total number of Members of both Houses."
After discussion,
Tin-- amendment was put and agreed to.
Motion, as amended, put and agreed to. a< follow-: —
The Parliament may, by law, prescribe the qualifications which shall be nece<^arv to entitle person- to vote i'or the election of Members of the House of Assembly, but no such law shall disqualify any pei'sons in the Province of the C'ape of Good Hope bv reason of their race or colour onlv, miles* such law be pa>M>d by both Hou>es of Parliament sitting to- jjether. and a]>proved of bv two-thirds of the total numhei of ^Members of both Houses.
n
fif> SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
8. iVr. Fi sclicr moved Resolution No. (2) of the Commit- tee's Second Report, viz. : Until such a law shall be passed the qualifications as existing in the several Colonies at the establishment of the Union shall be the qualifications neces- sary to entitle persons in the respective Provinces to vote for the election of Members of the House of Assembly.
Agreed to.
9. Mr. Fi xclicr moved Resolution No. (3) of the Commit- tee's Second Report, viz. : :' No person wlio, prior to the passing of any such law, shall be registered as a voter in any Province shall be removed from the register bv reason only of any disqualification based on race or colour.
Agreed to.
10. Mr. Fi xeltcr moved Resolution No. II of the Com- mittee's First Report, viz. : Only persons of European descent shall be eligible as Members of either House of Parliament.
Agreed to.
1.1. Gen. Botha moved, as an unopposed motion: That the "Resolution as to adjournment, adopted on the 30th October,
" That at its rising on Wednesday, the 4th November, the
Convention adjourn until Tuesday, the 10th November,"
5>c rescinded, and that the Convention proceed with its work
at Durban until not later than Wednesday, the llth instant,
nnd thereafter resume its sittings in Cape Town.
After discussion,
The motion was put and unanimously agreed to.
Business suspended at half-past twelve o'clock p.m.
Half-past three o'clock p.m.
Business resumed.
12. On the motion of the President,
The Convention proceeded to consider the Report of the Committee on constitution of the Asseniblv [pages 57-58].
Resolution No. 1 put, as follows:
Immediately on the passing of the Constitution Act, a Commission shall be appointed by the Government of each Colony, consisting of a Judge of the Supreme Court of such Colon v and t\vo other Members. Such Commission shall
ereupon proceed to divide the respective Colonies into elec- ureas for the first elections to be held under the said
vY (r cor ye Farmr moved, as an amendment : For the pur- po-e of carrying out the delimitation of electoral areas in each Province the Governor-Geiieral-in-Council shall appoint lioin time to time a Commission consisting of three Judges oi the Supreme Court or any High Court of the Provinces of South Africa. The Commission may appoint officers in any Province to assist them in obtaining any necessary informa- tion and may al-o appoint persons to sit with the Commission
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS. 67
or with individual members of it as assessors for the purpose of enquiring1 into questions arising in any Province. But all delimitations of electoral divisions shall be made by the Com- mission and signed by them or any two of them.
Mr. Jagtjcr moved, as an amendment to the above: To add " Provided that in the case of the first delimitation Commis- sion the members shall be appointed jointly by the Governors in-Council of the Colonies of the Union."
Mr. Mdhin moved, as a further amendment to Sir George Farrar's amendment: To omit "General," and after "Coun- cil" to insert "in each Colony"; and to omit "from time to time."
N/> L'ercy F/t~/)(i1rick moved, as a further amendment to Sir George Farrar's amendment : To omit all the words down to " South Africa," and substitute "Between the time of the passing of the Constitution Act and the taking effect of the l"n ion a joint Commission consisting of four Judges of the Supreme or High Courts of the constituent Colonies, to be agreed upon by the Governments of the Colonies, shall be appointed by the Governor-in-Council of each Colony for the purpose of the first delimitation thereof," and at the end to omit " two " and substitute " three." After discussion,
The last amendment was put and agreed to. The amendment proposed by Sir George Farrar as amended was then put as the main question, and agreed to, as follows : Between the time of the passing of the Constitution Act and the taking effect of the Union a joint Commission, con- sisting of four Judges of the Supreme or High Courts of the constituent Colonies, to be agreed upon by the Governments of the Colonies, shall be appointed by the Governor-in-Coun- cil of each Colony for the purpose of the first delimitation thereof. The Commission may appoint officers in any Pro- vince to assist them in obtaining any necessary information, and may also appoint persons to sit with the Commission or with individual members of it as assessors for the purpose of enquiring into questions arising in any Province. But all delimitations of electoral divisions shall be made by the Com- mission and signed by them, or any three of them.
The original resolution of the Committee and the amend- ments proposed by Mr. Jagger and Mr. Malan accordingly dropped.
"Resolution Xo. 2 [page 08] put and agreed to. Resolution Xo. -\ put, as follows: The number of Members to be elected in each electoral division shall lie three or more, unless the Commissioners decide in favour of a smaller num- ber in special cases of sparsely populated areas.
Mr. Broicne moved: To add, "or for exceptional circum- stances."
After discussion,
This amendment was put and negatived.
Mr. Jagger moved : To omit " or more."
D 2
<68 SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, 1908 — '09.
A tier discussion,
With leave of the Convention,
This amendment was withdrawn.
The resolution was then put and agreed to.
Resolution Xo. 4 put, as follows:
In every fourth year after the establishment of the Union the Governor-General-in-Council shall appoint one or more Com- missions, each of which to be presided over by a Judge of the Supreme or High Court of a Province, to carry out any re- distribution which may have become necessary as between the different electoral divisions in each Province and to provide lor re-adjustment of any additional Members to which such Province may have become entitled under the provisions of the Constitution. In carrying out such redistribution and re-adjustment the Commissioners shall proceed upon the same principles as in the original distribution and re-adjustment.
,Vr (jcnrye Farrtir moved: To omit from ''one or more" to " of a Province " and substitute " a Commission consisting of three Judges of any of the Superior Courts of the Union "; after " Commissioners shall " to insert " have the same powers and "; to omit " distribution " and substitute '' deli- mitation ": and to add at the end '' but the signature of two only shall be sufficient."
Mr. M<il(tn moved : To omit '' In every fourth year after the establishment of the Union,'' and substitute "As soon as may be after every quinquennial census."
After discussion.
These amendments were put and agreed to.
.Resolution, as amended, put and agreed to, as follows:
As soon as may be after every quinquennial census the Governor-General-in-Council shall appoint a Commission con- sisting of three Judges of any of the superior Courts of the L" 11 ion, to carry out any re-distribution which may have be- come necessary as between the different electoral divisions in each Province, and to provide for re-adjustment of any addi- tional Members to which such Province may have become entitled under the provisions of the Constitution. In carry- ing out such redistribution and re-adjustment the Commis- sioners -hall have the same powers and proceed upon the same principles as in the original delimitation and re-adjustment, lint the signature of two onlv shall be sufficient.
Resolution Xo. ") [page 08] imt and agreed to.
I-'!. Mr. Mtiltin moved: That the adjourned debate on the motion tor consideration of proposals for administration of |U-ti'-e be set down for to-morrow.
Agreed to.
II. (in the motion of Mr. Saner, the Convention adjourned • it I \\eniv minute- to -ix o'clock p.m.